It’s not about Trump, it’s about what Democrats are demanding I put my name to.
Won’t do it. There’s literally no combination of words or sounds you can make that will make me vote for a pro-genocide candidate.
Whether Trump wins or not depends entirely on how well Democrats can get the vote out, that’s their responsibility. I offer my vote with that one simple condition, not hard to get.
No, I think you’re confused, I said I won’t support pro-genocide candidates.
The genocide in Gaza is running full steam, there’s nothing more Trump can do that Biden isn’t already doing right now. Biden, historically, is the one who has a worse track record on the issue, which is pretty sad to realize.
You make a vague assertion that Trump will be more supportive of the genocide in some way. What specifically is Trump going to do? Send another billion dollars in bombs to Israel? Go over there himself and choke a child to death?
If you genuinely think Democrats represent a greater potential to not full-steam support the genocide then you still need to actually take the action that will get them to potentially stop their support. Letting them give you the middle finger and then voting for them anyway is not going to be effective in changing the party politics.
You have a binary choice, Biden or Trump for this election.
What you do with your vote is your choice of course but if you help Trump and the GOP get back in power are you going to accept your responsibility in everything that it entails?
We have three choices; Biden, Trump, deliberate non-vote.
I won’t be helping the GOP get into power because there is no scenario in which I would vote for them. Whether Biden can or cannot convince enough people to vote for him would be entirely on Biden himself. That’s how democracy works; you convince people to vote for you and get into office – He has the power to stop supporting genocide, ultimately I can’t influence him to do that other than to communicate that I will withhold my vote. If I’m unwilling to follow through on that option then it’s an empty threat.
I’m not sure why it’s become so difficult for people to understand. You’re trying to persuade the wrong person here. Write a letter to Biden and your representatives, they’re the one in office not me. I’m just a voter who Biden seems confident he doesn’t need.
I’m not trying to persuade you about anything, you’ve obviously made up your mind that helping Trump get back into power is a choice you’re willing to make to maintain your moral high ground.
I’m trying to let anyone else reading this conversation that there is a choice this election between Biden or Trump (I don’t think deliberate non-vote has a chance of becoming president) and the real work is pushing the DNC to have young, smart and progressive candidates in the next primary.
I’m not voting for Trump. I’m offering my vote to the Democrats for the most minimal cost. Literally willing to forego pretty much every political and moral principle I have except putting my name on a genocide.
Non-vote isn’t just the only possible moral choice in this context, it’s also the maximal way to vote if the goal is to change the party politics like you claim to want to.
Withholding votes is pushing the DNC to allow young, smart progressive candidates, it is the only way that ever has a chance of happening. This is because they will never ever allow a progressive candidate to win a primary if their corporate pro-genocide candidates can win simply by doing the old pied piper trick. As long as pro-genocide candidates are electorally viable, they’ll continue to field them and they’ll continue to win because that’s who the party backs with funding and that’s who they tell their media arm to boost. Biden getting re-elected reinforces that cycle, it does not put us closer to disrupting it.
The strategy you’re insisting on has only resulted in democratic voters compromising on their principles more and more to the point where you’re now here trying to convince people to vote for someone funding a genocide. That’s how far from your purported goal your strategy has brought us.
there is a choice this election between Biden or Trump … and the real work is pushing the DNC to have young, smart and progressive candidates in the next primary.
Uh huh, just onnnnnne more corporate democrat and the slide towards fascism will start to reverse, right? Just one little genocide, it’s no big deal just some brown kids getting killed, just put your name on it this one time and then we pinky promise we’ll start being more progressive.
I know I know, neoliberals lost RvW through their utter negligence, but it’ll work this time if we just let the DNC take one last AIPAC check, then they’ll be satisfied and stop kneecapping progressive candidates. They totally won’t do the exact same play next election cycle and get the exact same kind of empty right-wing suit to face off against whatever alt-right freak they help the GOP dredge up out of a bog somewhere.
They’d never do that after we gave them everything they wanted and when we flinch every time they play chicken with our democracy.
Right? This time will be different, just be complicit on this one genocide.
The best someone can do when faced with two equally genocidal candidates is try to pressure the party that has the potential to produce non-genocidal candidates, and the only way to do that is through protest, boycott, striking and soliciting your representatives or, as a lost resort, witholding your vote to communicate clearly that pro-genocide candidates are unviable. Anything else is enabling.
You’re not mitigating anything by voting for Biden, he literally just gave Israel a billion in military aid and will do so again as soon as an opportunity presents itself. The only thing more he could be doing is literally sending in American soldiers to help with the killing.
It’s not about Trump, it’s about what Democrats are demanding I put my name to.
Won’t do it. There’s literally no combination of words or sounds you can make that will make me vote for a pro-genocide candidate.
Whether Trump wins or not depends entirely on how well Democrats can get the vote out, that’s their responsibility. I offer my vote with that one simple condition, not hard to get.
Cool- I’ll just make a personal note that /u/retrospectology is pro-more-genocide because he refuses to vote for the pro-less-genocide candidate.
They do it all in service to his divine shadow. More mass for the protein bank.
Yo Way Yo!
Genocide is genocide, not sure what you’re on about.
Oh- so you don’t care about Palestinian lives at all- just taking a moralistic stance against a word you don’t even understand- gotcha.
No, I think you’re confused, I said I won’t support pro-genocide candidates.
The genocide in Gaza is running full steam, there’s nothing more Trump can do that Biden isn’t already doing right now. Biden, historically, is the one who has a worse track record on the issue, which is pretty sad to realize.
You make a vague assertion that Trump will be more supportive of the genocide in some way. What specifically is Trump going to do? Send another billion dollars in bombs to Israel? Go over there himself and choke a child to death?
If you genuinely think Democrats represent a greater potential to not full-steam support the genocide then you still need to actually take the action that will get them to potentially stop their support. Letting them give you the middle finger and then voting for them anyway is not going to be effective in changing the party politics.
lol- alrighty then.
You have a binary choice, Biden or Trump for this election.
What you do with your vote is your choice of course but if you help Trump and the GOP get back in power are you going to accept your responsibility in everything that it entails?
We have three choices; Biden, Trump, deliberate non-vote.
I won’t be helping the GOP get into power because there is no scenario in which I would vote for them. Whether Biden can or cannot convince enough people to vote for him would be entirely on Biden himself. That’s how democracy works; you convince people to vote for you and get into office – He has the power to stop supporting genocide, ultimately I can’t influence him to do that other than to communicate that I will withhold my vote. If I’m unwilling to follow through on that option then it’s an empty threat.
I’m not sure why it’s become so difficult for people to understand. You’re trying to persuade the wrong person here. Write a letter to Biden and your representatives, they’re the one in office not me. I’m just a voter who Biden seems confident he doesn’t need.
I’m not trying to persuade you about anything, you’ve obviously made up your mind that helping Trump get back into power is a choice you’re willing to make to maintain your moral high ground.
I’m trying to let anyone else reading this conversation that there is a choice this election between Biden or Trump (I don’t think deliberate non-vote has a chance of becoming president) and the real work is pushing the DNC to have young, smart and progressive candidates in the next primary.
deleted by creator
I’m not voting for Trump. I’m offering my vote to the Democrats for the most minimal cost. Literally willing to forego pretty much every political and moral principle I have except putting my name on a genocide.
Non-vote isn’t just the only possible moral choice in this context, it’s also the maximal way to vote if the goal is to change the party politics like you claim to want to.
Withholding votes is pushing the DNC to allow young, smart progressive candidates, it is the only way that ever has a chance of happening. This is because they will never ever allow a progressive candidate to win a primary if their corporate pro-genocide candidates can win simply by doing the old pied piper trick. As long as pro-genocide candidates are electorally viable, they’ll continue to field them and they’ll continue to win because that’s who the party backs with funding and that’s who they tell their media arm to boost. Biden getting re-elected reinforces that cycle, it does not put us closer to disrupting it.
The strategy you’re insisting on has only resulted in democratic voters compromising on their principles more and more to the point where you’re now here trying to convince people to vote for someone funding a genocide. That’s how far from your purported goal your strategy has brought us.
Like I said, you’ve already made your mind up and I’m not trying to persuade you at all.
I know, I was addressing the misleading points you tried to float.
More words doesn’t make more truth.
Uh huh, just onnnnnne more corporate democrat and the slide towards fascism will start to reverse, right? Just one little genocide, it’s no big deal just some brown kids getting killed, just put your name on it this one time and then we pinky promise we’ll start being more progressive.
I know I know, neoliberals lost RvW through their utter negligence, but it’ll work this time if we just let the DNC take one last AIPAC check, then they’ll be satisfied and stop kneecapping progressive candidates. They totally won’t do the exact same play next election cycle and get the exact same kind of empty right-wing suit to face off against whatever alt-right freak they help the GOP dredge up out of a bog somewhere.
They’d never do that after we gave them everything they wanted and when we flinch every time they play chicken with our democracy.
Right? This time will be different, just be complicit on this one genocide.
Your taxes fund genocide. The least you could do it mitigate the damage.
Agreed.
Apparently not on the mitigation part.
The best someone can do when faced with two equally genocidal candidates is try to pressure the party that has the potential to produce non-genocidal candidates, and the only way to do that is through protest, boycott, striking and soliciting your representatives or, as a lost resort, witholding your vote to communicate clearly that pro-genocide candidates are unviable. Anything else is enabling.
You’re not mitigating anything by voting for Biden, he literally just gave Israel a billion in military aid and will do so again as soon as an opportunity presents itself. The only thing more he could be doing is literally sending in American soldiers to help with the killing.
And the way we push them to do that is by voting for them no matter what!!!
That will make them change their mind!
Or you could choose people you like, campaign for them and volunteer you time to help them.
Up to you.
Been there, done that, still am, still will.