I think there’s this myth of “the neurotypical”… It’s a generic point on a scale that represents the most significant overlap, not any specific person. I genuinely believe no one is “neurotypical”, rather some tend towards it and others further away. That’s the spectrum. Plus some people might be closer to NT with some things but much further away with others.

For example, I have a pretty good degree of focus, I remember things pretty well, but I struggle to organise my thoughts and can’t bear to touch other people or certain textures. I’m sure everyone is a bit like this. Some people more so, some people less.

And that isn’t to minimise that there are people out there who really struggle to fit into the “best fit” of Neurotypical-aimed social design.

So why the need to create a mythical group of “Neurotypical”? Is it a need to define ourselves in opposition? Is it to make ourselves feel more unique? Is it a perverse form of gatekeeping?

The upshot is, that until we move towards realising that individuals have individual needs and requirements we aren’t going to make substantial progress and describing (and prescribing) otherness only seeks to alienate folk that might otherwise help.

People aren’t neurotypical… Systems are. I think that’s what I meant to say.

ACTIVATE DENTAL PROTOCOL

ND is the new introverted.

Only introverts think deeply, get anxious, or enjoy academic pursuits. Do you have a counterexample? Oh, well that person just doesn’t know they’re an introvert, so the pattern still holds!

Same with ND/NT. Nobody is neurotypical according to this definition because everyone has something they struggle with or are quirky about.

Then how do you explain that one Talking Heads song?

Jesus, that’s insane. Either I have 0 habits, or OP is right. Everything I do, I do “manually” , and have to put effort and thought into it.

Thanks for speaking to the other side, because that’s so hard to believe. I don’t know about everyone with ADHD, but it definitely seems to be a common shared experience. The only habits I do completely without thinking are a) putting my seatbelt on in the car, and b) picking my phone up like 100 times a day. Anything bigger, even something like eating, is something I have to will myself to do.

And when I’m trying to form a “habit,” like certain types of note taking or task planning at work, no matter how effective it is and how much I like it, I never manage to do it more than about 3 weeks before my brain just completely shuts off that pathway and it’s like I forget that process exists altogether.

If I don’t put my meds on my nightstand AND have a reminder on my phone, I will forget them most of the time. Daily activity, takes almost no brain power, and it still doesn’t trigger in my head as something I need to do unless I physically see it.

I’m not sure if it’s every ADHD person, but I have accidentally quit smoking.

If you can accidentally quit a physically addictive habit, things like brushing your teeth don’t stand a chance.

Wow. I honestly thought I was just lazy. Thank you for sharing. Everything other than sleep requires energy and effort. I wish I knew before I was in my 40s that I had ADHD!

I was blown away when I first saw this meme. I had no idea habits were supposed to LITERALLY become automatic. When people would tell me “Do something every day until it becomes a habit” I thought they meant “Do something until you stop forgetting to do it” Not “do something until your body just takes over and autopilots through it and you never have to think about it again”. Now I really understand why productivity advice is so useless. They’re all designed to “hack a habit loop” and I have no habit loop.

It actually kinda pissed me off when I learned what it’s like for neurotypical people. I felt like I’ve been unfairly misled and then judged for being misled.

I am not every ADHD person, but this could have been written by me. I had NO IDEA that you could have something be so ingrained that you don’t think about it. Even if I develop a “routine” of doing something, it is NEVER automatic. I have to put mental effort, even if small, into every task or it won’t get done.

After reading this my definition of habit would be better termed routine. I develop a routine and I try to stick to it. Also I could have a great routine and it lasts for a month or so and then it’s just, I don’t know what else to call it but ‘gone’. It’s gone. That routine is gone.

I realized when I was 20 that I can’t form habits. I’ve tried my whole life, but everything I do is an active choice, which makes it difficult to do anything at all long term. Things get boring and repetitive and after a while they aren’t interesting enough for me to get my executive functioning to do them anymore. Most things that I do daily, like brush my teeth, are actually things I do out of fear of the consequences of not doing them.

When I worked as a CS rep and had to log into my phone every time I sat down, it was a conscious effort that required active management, every day, for four years. When I get up in the morning to take care of and feed my pets, it’s an active checklist, and while I have a routine of sorts, different parts get missed often, like turning on my coffee machine, opening windows to cool the house, or even turning lights on. I’ve been on a mission to automate as much as possible in my home because things like my fish die otherwise.

The only time I’ve ever experienced auto-pilot has been while driving. And frankly, that scares the hell out of me because I lose time when that happens and have no idea if I did anything dangerous (I’m reasonably sure not because it’s happened often with others in the car, but the feeling is still there).

I can daydream through some actions, but it’s rare, and I fuck up whatever I’m doing. This is because I’m splitting my attention and not actually following a habit.

Starting any activity, including brushing my teeth, is always a conscious choice. I cannot “sleepwalk” into the bathroom to start my day.

A story here. I was in a relationship years ago, every morning this person would wake up and slap the button on their alarm. If they woke up before the alarm, or if the alarm failed, they would still reach over and slap the button. It was a habit.

I cannot develop habits like that. But I’m also not tripped up by habits. There’s no “walk down the hall and automatically turn left”.

The only upside to my particular situation is that I’ve never been hyperactive. Attention deficit, but no hyperactivity. It allows me to have at least some discipline in my day. But that has to be planned out and actively adhered to. It’s a constant struggle, but not as bad as some people I’ve known over the years.

It’s very common among autistic people and neurodivergent people in general, it’s called executive dysfunction. Essentially your brain has trouble both making and initiating plans. Every time I brush my teeth I have to remember to do it (this is not automatic, all my toothbrush stuff is set up as a visual cue any time I’m near the sink), focus on my task as I go to the bathroom so I don’t forget why I went there, remember to take my medicine first so that I don’t have to swallow them after brushing my teeth, floss, and brush.

The last two parts sound very simple (and they are, which is why this is so frustrating for many people), but sometimes I will stand in front of the bathroom sink for 5 or 10 minutes, knowing I need to brush my teeth, WANTING to brush my teeth, but it’s like whatever ‘go juice’ neurotypical people have a limitless supply of is just limited for me. Finally after standing there and psyching myself up I can do it, but it does take legitimate effort to initiate the process even if I follow through on all the parts smoothly. I couldn’t tell you exactly why this happens even though I can obviously recognize that it is happening, I kind of suspect it has to do with wonky sensory integration problems (common in ADHD and autistic people).

Very few things are true for every person with a given neurodivergence. But this is one of the more (most?) common things that people with ADHD struggle with, some to a lesser, some to a greater extent.

Trust me, our minds are equally blown by how your brain works. Like, what ? It’s automatic ? How does that even work? For me, automatic is things like clenching my teeth or flinching at a certain type of sound, but I wouldn’t call that a habit. For me, a habit is something I can’t stop the impulse for, like smoking. All daily practical functions are intentional or not at all. Even “routines” are just forcing yourself through the checklist, it’s never automatic. You’re like fucking robots I swear.

I think the rubric is basically whether or not the behavior is disruptive to your life. Many neurotypical people do those things from time to time, but if it becomes overwhelming and pervasive, and keeps you from functioning effectively, it’s time for an evaluation.

On the surface, I probably look like the person you’re describing, but no one knew I had an ADHD diagnosis that went ignored in childhood. No one knew how much I was masking every day. It’s harder now because I have to make my own meals, clean my house, etc. All the things I didn’t have to do as a kid. I got to learn, which I loved (my special interest is research) and do various activities I enjoyed, even if it was exhausting. Now, I’m stuck doing all the things I was never taught by my family, with no structure, just trying to survive. Of course it’s harder than when I was a kid. Those memes help me feel valid and seen, something my family were never willing to do, but at least now I have friends that get it.

There’s so much trauma that happens from neurodivergence being ignored in childhood, and that takes time to process. I spend a lot of my days crying over all the times I wasn’t allowed to cry growing up, processing things in therapy, etc. I literally can’t force myself to enjoy life without first having the needed tools. It’s sad that I can’t do what I used to, but I’m slowly getting there. Kindness and patience are what are needed most, when that’s not something I was given as a child.

All this to say, you never know what’s below the surface.

Yeah this. I don’t automatically do things without thinking.

I like to make a cup of coffee each morning. It’s a habit. I don’t really spend time thinking about whether I’m going to do it first thing each morning because it’s so deeply ingrained - of course I will want to do that tomorrow when I wake up. I’ve performed this ritual so many times that I do know all the steps (although I do occasionally fuck it up).

However, I’m not going through this process like an automaton free of thought - somewhere between the bed and the kitchen there’s still a decision that I’m going to make a coffee. Some mornings I pee before coffee, some mornings it’s after - there are decisions being made.

No, neurotypicals don’t just automatically go exercise. Its a choice they make.

No, neurotypical people have to think about actions before we take them. We aren’t robots. I don’t automatically get up from the couch, make dinner, and then eat it without thinking about it.

We get distracted and forget things, too. I went to the coffee shop the other day and realized I left my wallet at home.

My brother has extreme ADHD, and it’s much harder for him to manage everyday things. He might hyper focus on something and forget to eat all day, etc, but we both have to consciously do tasks just the same.

I have entirely forgotten glasses of water and plates of food for 6+ hours at a time that are directly next to me. The struggle is real.

Executive dysfunction is a symptom of lots of issues, you might well be neurodivergent to some degree. For me it’s Executive dysfunction. Time blindness. and a degree of face blindness. All of these things are super disruptive to my life.

They weren’t claiming that people had a habit for paying taxes in general but that because nothing else is a habit they lack the energy to do the things that other people already consider draining when they had to spend so much on things that come naturally and in a way for free to others.

I would argue that brushing your teeth certainly seems to be habitual for most people. It’s something they’d do if they went through the bathroom routine in the morning while effectively still asleep. This person is saying that if they don’t effectively stand in the bathroom and look at the brush and decide “I will now brush my teeth.” they won’t do it, where someone else had grabbed the brush while thinking about what they need to get done later in the day.

Depression on the other hand would more likely manifest in a disregard for the necessity of the activity. This person says they do brush their teeth, they want to brush their teeth and they are ready to spend their existing energy on it.

A depressed person often would not be convinced that it matters, nor that they could even make themselves do it if they felt like they had to. Though naturally depression is expressed in many ways, as is any type of neurodivergence. It’s hard to put strong labels on these things. Nonetheless it seems sensible to differentiate on these things as most neurodivergence is simply a set of untypical phenomena and behaviour that have collected up enough to start becoming notable.

A person considered completely normal could suffer from the same but simply manage well enough for it to never stick out. No one is entirely normal.

I actually do have a habit of brushing my teeth. It’s part of my morning routine, which I do in the exact same order, every day. But, I’m autistic (I was diagnosed as a teen in the 80s). I’m one of those persons that has a very exact routine, and get really upset when my routine gets interrupted.

But, I do agree with you that some of those symptoms seem more indicative of depression than ADHD.

Don’t because this whole thing is fucking stupid. Everyone has to stop and think about brushing teeth. There is no autopilot mode that lets people take care of simple tasks without even thinking about it.

If you’re finding it difficult to brush your teeth, you’re probably depressed, not necessarily ADHD.

Thats normal, stuff like hanging your keys up or something

Autism, BPD, and ADHD all have overlapping symptoms. These traits, executive dysfunction, are definitely common between autism and ADHD.