Yet.
Lemmy is so far left leaning because a large part of its existence is due to people being mad at capitalism
And its so tiring to hear about all the time
Edit: and I don’t disagree
“I disagree with the bad thing, but I wish the people affected by the bad thing wouldn’t complain about it so much!”
Capitalism doesn’t tire!
I agree with it, but I also agree with you
I’m real tired of hearing about Lemmy and Reddit. I just want the other content that I used to consume here. I’m getting pretty tired of hearing how bad Reddit is doing.
It’s like someone coming out of an abusive relationship. Every other sentence is about the awful things they did, how good it is to be away, and did you hear about xyz thing they did.
It’s exhausting.
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That’s not how it started, Lemmy started way back from r/redditalternatives with Ellen Pao fiasco.
developed by socialists
I thought only capitalism drives innovation?
Strangely enough, many people do things for other reasons than money. :)
Name 3.
Altruism, personal fulfillment, drugs
Name 845.
Well, let’s subdivide drugs then and start with the table of contents of PIHKAL and TIHKAL.
👀 eyeballs the Entire Free / Open source software culture
it does, in the fields of exploitation sciences, also known as orthodox micro economics
Capitalism drives dependance tho. Not a socialist but capitalism is terrible as well. Lemmy is created by free software and open source software enthusiasts. This means that code is public, its for everyone, and anyone can use it woth or without modification.
Some people think this is communism
One of the devs has a guide on how to get into communism and which books to read on their GitHub. People think lemmy is communistic because the devs are.
One of the devs
People have very different opinions. The free software dev communities consist of many weird people as well. Many autistic ones, having other mental issues, and some sane people. But in the end all that matters is the software that they create. They are open and visible. Thoose people can’t be corrupt like the proprietary corporations(facebook, google, reddit) as the anyone can see what the software exactly does. If the software does the job without tracking or doing malicious attempts on you like facebook or google, then its really good
I mean the lead dev. Dessaline
A robust and non-ideological non-profit sector is key to any form of healthy capitalist system. That should be an agreeable statement to anyone regardless of if they like or hate capitalism.
There are two main reasons that evangelicals oppose government social services. One: Communism bad (well, “socialism bad” now because they have to poison the well against European democracies now that USSR is gone). Two: If the government helps people, people will be less likely to seek help from evangelical organizations, which eliminates a huge way to market Supply Side Jesus to people. Eating in to evangelicals’ ability to proselytize compellingly is therefore a non-starter.
Capitalism drives dependance tho.
So much this. Capitalism does not provide innovative solutions. Capitalism is the idea that there is only one, universal solution to any problem: throw money at it. The fundamental objective of capitalism is to invent new and innovative problems to fit that universal solution.
community property is a feature of socialism.
Community property is also a feature of capitalism (the form of it in the USA).
Police stations, public parks, classified documents, national/state parks and conservation areas are examples.
I think ‘community property’ is a byproduct of having a functional community.
Nah those are socialist features within capitalism and are all under assault from the neolib privateers.
more like a prerequisite
Freedom and personal liberty drives innovation more than anything else.
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It can be both. You cannot argue that Lemmy is devoid of echo chambers.
You know people can have strong ideals and still have the humanity to help people who may disagree with them? Not everything is run by political ideology.
There’s also the fact that there isn’t an algorithm trying to keep you doomscrolling by promoting commercial content.
This is underrated. I actually close Lemmy a lot easier and more quickly than I did reddit, it’s not hooking me with dopamine hits nearly as strongly.
As a result, since I know I’ll probably just scroll for a few minutes at a time, I’m more willing to check in more often and toss a few upvotes and maybe a comment or two around.
I think this is a huge part of it. Occasionally I’ll surf Facebook after checking out the marketplace. Last night I saw tons of posts about that “Try that in a small town” song with tons of people claiming to support it. Just post after post of people saying they don’t see anything racist about it at all, and not a single one pointing out how showing videos of the BLM protests while singing “we take care of our own, try that in a small town” miiiiiiiight just be a little bit racist. Fortunately I usually only click on cat videos and the rare left leaning recommended posts, so I got to see one post with a picture of John Cougar Mellencamp saying something like “I sang about my small town without mentioning violence.” The post had hundreds of comments…all deleted by admins.
Even when you try to avoid the controversy and hateful comments, the system is still designed to keep you doomscrolling. Positivity doesn’t help that…
I need eye bleach - I googled that song and wished I didn’t. You don’t even need to go to a small town - you go 5 feet outside of ANY city in US and everyone suddenly has a Southern accent and half of the people have Confederate flags. My 5 year old was with her mom in a peaceful protest and the fucking sheriff teargassed the group - she didn’t get hit by the teargas but she did almost get crushed by the panicking crowd. Fuck these people. Sorry about the “negativity.” But fuck.
Yep this is huge. I still scroll on RiF sometimes without being logged in, and I had only ever looked at the subs I was subscribed to until now. I’m shocked by how much infuriating nonsense is being pushed by the site.
Tbf r/politics was extremely left leaning.
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We get it, you’re
veganan anarcho-communistJust be take a short trip to any country outside the US and you’ll realize that it is indeed the case: No left in the US.
There is a left it’s just not the established Democrat party.
Ah yes, like Europe?
Spain, Italy, Turkey, Poland, Hungary? Which
socialistright wing “paradise” should I visit?Or maybe Germany, where the AfD is gathering steam?
Maybe actually learn about the world before spouting sayings you learned on Twitter 3 years ago.
Europe sure has a big resurgence in right wing politics, however a socialist left is still represented (albeit on the decline).
I’m not stating that there is a socialist paradise somewhere, just that in the US you can hardly consider the left “left” (Overton window, yadi yada)
bee nurse
Extremely is a stretch.
“Extremely” doesn’t go far enough to accurately describe that cesspool
Thinking like this is why people get surprised when right leaning parties get voted for in elections
Lol right? “Right wing politics only seem popular because of bots”. No, left wing politics only seem popular on social media because old people dont use it, despite making up the majority of many populations, and often times are the only people who actually vote in elections.
Left wing politics are more popular in the real world than they are in real world governments. The thing is that extremely online youth have absolutely no idea of just how far left they are.
I think that the left-right dichotomy is inherently flawed. A lot of what I believe might be considered “right-leaning” or “left-leaning,” but I cannot say that I prescribe to either sort of ideology fully or with any fidelity.
I will always be opposed to any view with a pervasive “moral” authority, and both the so-called left and right are obsessed with their own versions of this. The problem we run into is the false supposition that beliefs can be categorized on a spectrum spanning right to left (or, even more liberally, a spectrum spread across two dimensions). It has been a ridiculous notion from its inception, whenever that might have been.
Building one’s identity (another silly notion, in general—identity itself being a frivolous construct that functions only as a fulcrum for the extortion of social power) upon a supposed spectrum is likewise ridiculous. You can be conservative or liberal, or anything, really. But those beliefs do not exist in a linear or planar dimension. They are so far removed from each other that one cannot fathom sliding incrementally from one to the next.
And to each respective party, “left” and “right,” the other can be demonized as evil, even without full comprehension of the other. It’s all just so damned tribalistic and silly.
Lemmy is a decentralized protocol not a centralized americanized political leaning social media.
Do you think that’s relevant? I don’t see anything about either reddit or lemmy that makes it harder for right-wingers to join. I can tell you that America does not have a monopoly on the alt-right (AfD, Brexit, etc)
I’m keen to learn more if you’ve seen evidence in this topic. I wouldn’t know how to investigate, tbh.
On Reddit is way harder now (like I care), it is not about monopoly but a state controlled company that’s has censorship from a party.
state controlled company
Umm. Do you mean Tencent? They have a minority holding. The idea that China actively controls reddit is hard to reconcile with the amount of content that is critical of China. Or let me know what you mean, if not that.
has censorship from a party
What censorship, what party? Do you mean t_d being shut down? Because a better explanation of that would be that the majority of civilised people finally had enough of the nasty chumps in that hole, and good riddance to them. Or let me know what you mean, if not that.
State controlled and censored I mean three letter agency, as the NSA leaks.
If the platform owners are driving discussions by manipulating feeds (Facebook) or running bots to make the platform look popular (Reddit), the right-wing presence on those platforms might not be as real as we believe.
Well, looking at elections worldwide, the far-right isn’t as small as any extremist party should be…
Lemmy also isn’t profit driven, so you don’t get libertarian tech bros.
That’s reaching a quite a bit. Reddit itself is very left leaning. Pair that with the fact that the (probably few) ring wing people leaving Twitter recently might not be interested in a forum style platform such as Lemmy.
My guess is that the number of right leaning people joined Lemmy in this last wave of new accounts was small in comparison to the left leaning ones.
Reddit used to be very left-leaning, but I don’t think that’s true anymore. Even if you look at a community with a conventionally “leftist” moderation like /r/europe you will see a huge amount of authoritarian and outright fascist comments.
/r/europe will ban you for insinuating that rich people are making the world worse for everyone because “it’s communism”
My local subreddit, a liberal city, has been banning a bunch of people after it got taken over by anti-choice conservatives who don’t even live there.
I mean, the political situation in Europe has changed a lot in the last fifteen years. Lot’s of those may be the same users/mods who’s opinions have shifted along with that.
I was going to say this, I’m glad you did instead.
People’s opinions have changed a lot in the last 25 years. In the late 90s we got to see the last gasps of the real power of the religious right, in the early 2000s we got to see the dominance of the neoconservative right, in the late 2000s we got to see a massive shift leftward as a backlash against the religious right and the neoconservative right, then from the more chill hippie left wing we got to see the rise of the authoritarian woke left, and right now we’re starting to see a backlash against that. It isn’t always from different people, it’s often from the same people changing their minds.
For quite some time I’ve thought of it like steering a car. If you steer hard to the left you’re going to hit the ditch, if you steer hard to the right you’re going to hit the ditch. Really what you need is to course correct at times just stay on the road. Sometimes you need to turn the wheel pretty hard in one direction or the other, other times you want to just nudge the wheel, and get other times you don’t really want to move it at all.
Some regions voted hard for Clinton, then voted for bush, then voted for obama, then voted for trump, then voted for Biden. Such a thing might look completely inconsistent, but politics is a dynamic system where circumstances change, certain movements win and then we get to see the consequences of those movements, new movements form, and maybe old movements collapse.
This isn’t a new idea. Hegelian dielectic proposes that in politics, a dominant idea (thesis) eventually leads to its opposite or challenge (antithesis), resulting in a resolution or synthesis of the conflicting ideas. Such an idea predates Marx, so it’s been around for quite some time.
There are quite a number of examples historically of people completely changing their mind on a topic. The father of Canadian universal healthcare, Tommy Douglas, was a powerful advocate of eugenics when he was younger, and as he got older he realized that he made a terrible mistake and changed his mind. Solzhenitsyn apparently early on in his life believed in the Soviet project but once he learned of the gulags had his views fundamentally change. A lot of people like to pretend that national socialism died with Adolf Hitler in that bunker, but a lot of people believed in and supported national socialism in Germany, and those people continue to exist after world war 2, but I think it’s safe to say that for the most part they learned the error of their ways. I’m sure there are lots of people who supported Putin internationally in the 90s who wish they could go back and change that decision now.
To me it’s one of the deepest dangers of the purity spiraling we are seeing from the left right now. The fact of the matter is, as you kick more people out of the left, it becomes a less and less viable movement. As the left acts as if people become irredeemable the moment that their opinions are wrong, it becomes something that will inevitably fail.
I feel like the modern left would take a look at post war germany, and post to japan, and would just immediately start implementing genocide. “Nope, they were Nazis they are irredeemable they need to be pushed into the sea”. The most amazing thing about the end of world war II is the incredible wisdom with which the world powers helped to rehabilitate Germany and Japan into some of the most powerful nations in the world today, but for the most part lacking in the qualities that set them off to war and atrocity way back when.
I don’t disagree with a lot of what you say here. But I was refering just to events in Europe in the last 18 years since Reddit started.
Back in 2005 it was a pretty good time for most people. Since then we had the 2008 crash, austerity, major terrorist attacks, the refugee crisis, Brexit, Covid, huge inflation, a war on our borders, unrest, etc. France has had two sets of riots this year alone. It’s not surprising people’s views change when presented with all that.
Also, people grow and their life and priorities change. A mod who was a twenty year old student when the site formed, is now a thirty-eoght year old who’s spent plenty of time in the real world, may be married, have kids, etc. They will view the world differently to the kid that set up the sub back then.
Agree with everything you’re talking about.
The world changes, your personal life changes, and people’s views change with it.
When I first started on reddit, I was a virgin who had just started his first professional job making 20 bucks an hour after college. Today I’m married with kids, and I’ve advanced substantially in my career. Many of those things are things I thought would never happen or that I thought I’d never want to happen. Movements I supported won total victory and I got to see what that looked like, other movements I opposed grew and I realized they weren’t totally wrong, lots happened.
Just in 18 years, that’s an entire lifetime.
I don’t think i ever viewed Europe as leftist. Now, WPT… That’s a great example of authoritarian leftism.
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Would you consider Mao and Stalin to be left, or right? Would you agree, regardless, that they are authoritarian?
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The libertarian left is anti-authoritarian. But unless you are going to exclude all marxist-leninist from the left, regardless of their advocacy for equality and opposition to the capitalist system, left authoritarianism obviously exists. I think perhaps you are engaged in a no true Scotsman fallacy?
The libertarian right is also anti authoritarian
The libertarian right is also anti authoritarian
Eh, only because their ideological blinders block their understanding that what they are advocating ends up in corporate feudalism. Their hierarchy is property based.
I mean, it only makes sense.
If I want to stand where you’re standing, there is going to be some way to settle who gets to stand there
You need to enforce equity though, it’s not something that humans do naturally.
Through that enforcement of equity you are choosing authoritarianism.
There is no equity equilibrium to reach unless it’s from the threat of violence, to keep everyone down to the lowest rung. While hiding all the inequity that the ones at the top enjoy, or making excuses for it.
Sort of how bill gates believe he should be able to fly in private jets because what he is doing is more important than what you would need to fly for is. So you’ll accept it.
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Hopefully some of those more talented Reddit mods decide to bring their skills to Lemmy. I’d love to see the bot hunting algorithms here
Imagine if Lemmy just totally avoided playground level political debate?
I agree with you that Lemmy may be more left-leaning than other social media platforms due to the lack of bot activity. However, I think it’s also important to consider the type of content that is shared and discussed on Lemmy. As a platform focused on creativity and expression, there may be an inherent bias towards progressive or left-leaning ideas and discussions. Additionally, Lemmy’s community guidelines prioritize kindness and respect, which can create a space where voices from marginalized communities feel safe to share their opinions and experiences. Overall, while bot activity certainly plays a role in shaping the political climate of social media platforms, I believe that Lemmy’s unique culture and values also contribute to its overall political orientation.
That being said, I appreciate your comment and am glad to see thoughtful discussion happening on Lemmy! Let’s keep building a supportive and inclusive online community together.
I think that Lemmy leans left because people on the right tend to be occupied with more productive activities in their life, such as work, family, or hobbies.
The left-leaning Lemmy tends to be people who haven’t gotten out and touched grass in a while, mainly because it is composed of former redditors.
Algorithms and AI. Rage gets views, so it’s what gets pushed to the top, so it gets even more views, so it gets pushed to the top.
Yeah, Lemmy has address to this by just having an incredibly glitchy algorithm (look at this post with five up votes from four months ago, it deserves to be on the front page). No one can game it because no one understands it.
Among people in general who actually read comments, the left does have a distinct advantage.
If Republicans could read, they’d be real mad
i think its not just the bots but also that the right want their posts to be seen and want to “present” themself and their “opinions”. And i think for that, lemmy is just not visible enough, yet.
