For anyone curious, this bill is fighting against the conservative SCOTUS decision that basically said fossil fuel and other companies don’t have to listen to the EPA or follow environmental regulations if the company has a “reasonable”(undefined) argument against said regulation.
SCOTUS is unchecked by the rest of the federal government. The only thing that would limit their power is a constitutional amendment, which requires 38 states to individually ratify it at the level of their state governments, not their federal congresspeople.
There is literally no way for congress to affect the supreme court once it has 9 justices, or contradict its rulings on laws they call “unconstitutional”, short of impeaching supreme court justices or packing the court with more than 9 justices. Once enough of the court is full of fascists or enablers, it’s EXTREMELY hard to escape fascism without a constitutional convention.
Yeah unfortunately once fascism sets in there’s literally no way to get rid of it without using more fascism or violence. And considering that fascism necessarily requires the threat of violence, that previous statement can be simplified to “Fascism can only be defeated with violence”
In theory that was supposed to be the strength of SCOTUS, that being secure in their employment for life (or until retirement), they had no incentive to judge along party lines for fear of future prospects. However, we’ve seen that judges can still be both very partisan and entirely unqualified and we can now do nothing to remove them. Turns out bribery and threats still work on them
flipping open my Lockean theory of self-governance
Strictly speaking, the power of government is in its ability to achieve (relatively) peaceful compliance. The SCOTUS decision creates an opportunity for individuals to behave in defiance of the written law with a certain fearlessness. A President can go full Andrew Jackson and tell the judges to enforce that decision, but he’s still got to command a bureaucracy full of people who can be swayed in the other direction.
What happens to a regulation that nobody is willing to enforce? What happens to a federal regulation that runs afoul of state law, in a district where municipal/state law enforcement will enthusiastically arrest and local DAs prosecute a federal agent?
I would say that’s the real power of the SCOTUS. Opening the legal door for disobedience and negligence at the federal level, while state-level revolt occurs downstream.
The Loper Bright ruling was that when taken on appeal that the courts no longer have to accept a reasonable agency interpretation over a reasonable (or more reasonable) interpretation by the other party.
And the rulings isn’t just for the EPA but all other federal agencies like the IRS, ICE, and the FDA. This bill is a double edged sword depending on who has the executive seat.
There’s at least a possibility of the executive having enough expertise to regulate reasonably. The courts don’t have the resources, but they’ve grabbed that power to themselves.
I mean that power was there since article 3 got drafted, and reaffirmed by the text of the APA.
The issue is the legislature not being able to pass laws due to the filibuster. This has lead to agencies being forced to take up their own interpretations to adapt language beyond it’s original meaning to attempt to complete their goals, like w/ the Loper Bright case.
If the executive’s rules leading to Loper Bright were not reasonable, the court wouldn’t have had a reason to overturn Chevron in order to decide against it.
Edit: the fact that court first wisely delegated the power to set regulatory rules doesn’t change the fact that they unwisely took it back.
I don’t think for the court it was an issue of making wise policy choices but of who had what authority, and what did the law say about it. The court simply didn’t have anything enabling them to delegate their powers in the Chevron case.
The separation of powers is core to the structure of our government, delegating powers onto other branches nullifies that. Hence the non delegation doctrine. Perhaps it [Chevron] may be good policy but it simply isn’t how our government is structured.
The court simply didn’t have anything enabling them to delegate their powers in the Chevron case.
They made up presidential immunity a few days later, then gave themselves control over it.
The court has a long tradition of deferring to the elected branches on matters of policy. This is based on the principal that voters should have a say. If a rule is reasonable under existing law, then changing it is properly the work of the legislature.
Basically agencies were given power unchecked without passing any laws giving them that power. Supreme court decision was correct. Congress needs to get off their butts and get laws passed if they want them so bad, and stop relying on shaky historical precedents.
I honestly agree with the decision in a vacuum, but in reality I can’t help but feel the decision was made very much with corporate interests in mind. Yeah congress should’ve gotten their ducks in a row long before now, but the real winner here is corporations, not constituents.
For anyone curious, this bill is fighting against the conservative SCOTUS decision that basically said fossil fuel and other companies don’t have to listen to the EPA or follow environmental regulations if the company has a “reasonable”(undefined) argument against said regulation.
So this law should get made. Get made good.
Regulations are “unconstitutional”? Hmmmmmmm 🤔 Is SCOTUS bound by anything? Seems like they can rule however they like.
SCOTUS is unchecked by the rest of the federal government. The only thing that would limit their power is a constitutional amendment, which requires 38 states to individually ratify it at the level of their state governments, not their federal congresspeople.
There is literally no way for congress to affect the supreme court once it has 9 justices, or contradict its rulings on laws they call “unconstitutional”, short of impeaching supreme court justices or packing the court with more than 9 justices. Once enough of the court is full of fascists or enablers, it’s EXTREMELY hard to escape fascism without a constitutional convention.
You could instruct the federal agencies to ignore court rulings, effectively undoing Marbury vrs Madison.
That’s a constitutional crisis, but what is the court gonna do? Call the FBI? Send in the military?
You can ask the Cherokee people what the court does with an uncooperative federal government, but you won’t find any in Georgia.
Maybe that’s just fascism with our side in charge though.
Yeah unfortunately once fascism sets in there’s literally no way to get rid of it without using more fascism or violence. And considering that fascism necessarily requires the threat of violence, that previous statement can be simplified to “Fascism can only be defeated with violence”
In theory that was supposed to be the strength of SCOTUS, that being secure in their employment for life (or until retirement), they had no incentive to judge along party lines for fear of future prospects. However, we’ve seen that judges can still be both very partisan and entirely unqualified and we can now do nothing to remove them. Turns out bribery and threats still work on them
flipping open my Lockean theory of self-governance
Strictly speaking, the power of government is in its ability to achieve (relatively) peaceful compliance. The SCOTUS decision creates an opportunity for individuals to behave in defiance of the written law with a certain fearlessness. A President can go full Andrew Jackson and tell the judges to enforce that decision, but he’s still got to command a bureaucracy full of people who can be swayed in the other direction.
What happens to a regulation that nobody is willing to enforce? What happens to a federal regulation that runs afoul of state law, in a district where municipal/state law enforcement will enthusiastically arrest and local DAs prosecute a federal agent?
I would say that’s the real power of the SCOTUS. Opening the legal door for disobedience and negligence at the federal level, while state-level revolt occurs downstream.
The Loper Bright ruling was that when taken on appeal that the courts no longer have to accept a reasonable agency interpretation over a reasonable (or more reasonable) interpretation by the other party.
And the rulings isn’t just for the EPA but all other federal agencies like the IRS, ICE, and the FDA. This bill is a double edged sword depending on who has the executive seat.
There’s at least a possibility of the executive having enough expertise to regulate reasonably. The courts don’t have the resources, but they’ve grabbed that power to themselves.
I mean that power was there since article 3 got drafted, and reaffirmed by the text of the APA.
The issue is the legislature not being able to pass laws due to the filibuster. This has lead to agencies being forced to take up their own interpretations to adapt language beyond it’s original meaning to attempt to complete their goals, like w/ the Loper Bright case.
If the executive’s rules leading to Loper Bright were not reasonable, the court wouldn’t have had a reason to overturn Chevron in order to decide against it.
Edit: the fact that court first wisely delegated the power to set regulatory rules doesn’t change the fact that they unwisely took it back.
I don’t think for the court it was an issue of making wise policy choices but of who had what authority, and what did the law say about it. The court simply didn’t have anything enabling them to delegate their powers in the Chevron case.
The separation of powers is core to the structure of our government, delegating powers onto other branches nullifies that. Hence the non delegation doctrine. Perhaps it [Chevron] may be good policy but it simply isn’t how our government is structured.
They made up presidential immunity a few days later, then gave themselves control over it.
The court has a long tradition of deferring to the elected branches on matters of policy. This is based on the principal that voters should have a say. If a rule is reasonable under existing law, then changing it is properly the work of the legislature.
Not at all. It gives substantial power to the lower courts and strips it from the executive’s cabinet secretaries.
For real. The regulations are the “reasonable” standards. If you can’t meet the bare minimum you can fuck off.
Basically agencies were given power unchecked without passing any laws giving them that power. Supreme court decision was correct. Congress needs to get off their butts and get laws passed if they want them so bad, and stop relying on shaky historical precedents.
Kind of hard to pass bills when one political party is dedicated to nothing but corruption and obstruction but ok.
That’s fine, that’s why state and local governments exist, to implement what can’t be decided on nationally.
Yes, it is hard to pass bills that only half of congress wants. Again, the system working as intended.
I honestly agree with the decision in a vacuum, but in reality I can’t help but feel the decision was made very much with corporate interests in mind. Yeah congress should’ve gotten their ducks in a row long before now, but the real winner here is corporations, not constituents.