It’s actually worse, can make you really sick if you get unlucky
The part that gets me is this…
You can get salmonella from unpasteurized milk. This happens a lot…especially considering America pasteurizes the majority of its milk…but when you hear of a milk-related outbreak a lot of the time it’s from unpasteurized milk even though percent wise it’s a small portion of our milk supply.
Anyway. A healthy adult might get through salmonella ok. BUT. Salmonella can completely fuck up a 3 year old’s kidneys FOR LIFE. And it can be just as bad for the elderly.
These are both groups that have other people providing their food. If a 3 year old or child is given milk by mom and dad…well, they drink it. They have no choice in whether it’s pasteurized or not. That’s why government regulation of milk steps in, to make sure dumb people having babies don’t harm their kids through their poor choices.
Giving unpasteurized milk to kids is similar to anti-vaxxers not vaccinating their kids. Basically, the parent involved has gone haywire over any smaller/imagined detriment or benefit, and chooses the action that could bring the MOST harm while thinking they are taking the route of least harm.
With raw milk, parents think the “nutrients” are better or something (even though…you know…we cook most of our food so MOST of our food is heat treated), and the food poisoning from possible salmonella minor/non-existent, when reality the nutrient profile isn’t much different between pasteurized/unpasteurized milk, but the salmonella can kill the vulnerable or cripple their organs for life.
It all comes down to people being alive now in an era where we no longer have elders/grandparents telling others about how people used to DIE from these things.
People hear about getting cancer or dementia or whatever all the time, but haven’t actually seen the old-school childhood illnesses from tainted milk or viruses or the like, so people make the wrong choice because it’s not apparent from their own life experience how bad those illnesses were since they don’t have family that talks about people they knew who got sick and died. The science is too abstract for them to internalize, but “choosing your own food” feels good and feels like you’re in control…so people go down that route instead because they haven’t seen the consequences of salmonella in their own family or in their friends (because there’s a lot of barriers in places, including pasteurization of milk, to try to stop/prevent outbreaks.)
Some people get crazy about it.
The US in general had some way worse listeria outbreaks than Europe did in the window where pasteurization laws were first becoming things anyone was considering, so we start from a much more “your milk will be made safe” place.
As a result, raw milk, while still uncommon, can be sold in stores or other “normal” retail settings in most of Europe, and it’s probably what will be used for cheese manufacturing.
In the US, it’s only available via stores that sell it exclusively via club membership, and you might get raided by the USDA if they suspect you’re trying to skirt the rules about membership. (Some stores have done hourly membership that comes with a free gallon of milk). Milk must also be pasteurized before being used for cheese, which creates a market for black market cheeses that can’t be made with pasteurized milk but aren’t cost effective to import past the various taxes we put on luxury cheese.
As a result most Americans are either far more wary of raw milk, because our laws were written before modern milking practices reduced sanitary concerns to what we accept for meat, or they develop a persecution complex and ascribe it quasi-magical powers, ironically often getting it from places that don’t follow the sanitary practices that render it likely benign.
The thing to keep in mind when you compare the saga of turn of the century milk production between Europe and the US/Canada is the immigrant population. There just wasn’t a market for milk in the urban setting in Europe because everyone knew it was deadly since the Roman times.
Compare that to New York, where they had a large influx of immigrants from small farming communities where children would often drink milk when young and they would buy milk that was sold out of unrefrigerated wagons coming from cows kept in confined spaces within the city. It was murderous, with tens of thousands of children’s deaths in New York City alone. Of course this was the age of Cholera so the lives of people in cities came cheap.
The plain truth was adding formalin, which has no safe dose itself, was safer than drinking that shit the way they were selling it. North American cities quickly banned unpasteurized milk once the causal relationship was proven (despite the milkmen complaining).
It’s really good if you want to catch an infection. My father in law had cows, would always boil the milk before consuming it because he didn’t want to get sick.
It’s what you want for cheese and butter making. Other than that, it’s probably a reason there was a fair bit of kids that died before pasteurization.
When I was a kid, we still had milk cows so I probably dodged a bullet, and it wasn’t that my parents were some back-to-the-earth whackos, it was just Canadian rural life in the 70s. I do remember milk tasting better then though.
I grew up milking cows and drinking raw milk as well. The reason we didn’t get sick was because of the basic quality control we did as routine. In order for the pathogens to cause illness it needs three things: innoculum, time to grow and the right temperature to grow at.
The milk was immediately put into the fridge when we brought it in. It stayed in the fridge until it was used.
When you have 1-2 gallons coming into the house every day, you use a lot of milk and use it constantly. You don’t put a gallon in the fridge and drink over 2-3 weeks. You have to consume, process or dump it because the fridge only holds so much and you only have so many jugs. We made butter and cheese every week at least. No gallon lasted in the fridge more than 5-6 days. Usually it was used in 2-3 days.
We knew the cow well. When she was sick or had an infection, we dumped the milk. We had to give ours antibiotics for mastitis a few times. We dumped the milk until the antibiotic was out of her system as well.
Any jug that smelled off was dumped. It wasn’t a big deal since we had another gallon coming in a few hours.
Yah, you always milked off the first bit on the ground or to the cats. We sold a little bit to the dairy so we didn’t end up wasting a lot, and everything went to the fridge quickly. On the other hand, I loved milk and on a hot day I’ve drank the better part of a gallon by myself so there wasn’t much chance of it laying around. I did stop doing that when I realized how god-awful many calories whole milk has in it.
From what I can get from a quick google normal homogenized milk can lead to health problems (but don’t get scared its not poison).
Instead it’s better to drink organic milk that’s not homogenized.
And I would say let the farmers drink raw milk, they know the health of their cows best.
He already said he “only did a quick google” so it’s fair to say there is no understanding. Love the vague “health problems” as the reason to avoid safe milk too lol.
I think the issue is that you felt the need to write anything at all. You admittedly know nothing about it and just gave confusing information based on a cursory internet search.
This has nothing to do with anything, but I know what homogenized means in the context of milk, but when I was a kid, I used to think it meant milk from different cows had been mixed. Like, that’s why the called it homogenized. That they were, for some reason, mandated to make giant vats of cow-juice from millions of cows, and stir it together before they could sell it.
So what is the problem with homogenization? You like big fat globs instead of small ones? You want fat to separate out for better health? It’s just a mechanical treatment.
What’s so good about raw milk, I’ve seen Yanks mention it a bunch of times
They thinks it’s better for you or something because it’s not processed. It’s actually worse, can make you really sick if you get unlucky
ah yes. just the way God intended; we should be drinking raw, non-processed… cow milk.
Just inject the all natural, organic, unprocessed, 100% chemical free, snake venom into my veins.
It’s what sweet little baby jeebus would have wanted.
The part that gets me is this…
You can get salmonella from unpasteurized milk. This happens a lot…especially considering America pasteurizes the majority of its milk…but when you hear of a milk-related outbreak a lot of the time it’s from unpasteurized milk even though percent wise it’s a small portion of our milk supply.
Anyway. A healthy adult might get through salmonella ok. BUT. Salmonella can completely fuck up a 3 year old’s kidneys FOR LIFE. And it can be just as bad for the elderly.
These are both groups that have other people providing their food. If a 3 year old or child is given milk by mom and dad…well, they drink it. They have no choice in whether it’s pasteurized or not. That’s why government regulation of milk steps in, to make sure dumb people having babies don’t harm their kids through their poor choices.
Giving unpasteurized milk to kids is similar to anti-vaxxers not vaccinating their kids. Basically, the parent involved has gone haywire over any smaller/imagined detriment or benefit, and chooses the action that could bring the MOST harm while thinking they are taking the route of least harm.
With raw milk, parents think the “nutrients” are better or something (even though…you know…we cook most of our food so MOST of our food is heat treated), and the food poisoning from possible salmonella minor/non-existent, when reality the nutrient profile isn’t much different between pasteurized/unpasteurized milk, but the salmonella can kill the vulnerable or cripple their organs for life.
It all comes down to people being alive now in an era where we no longer have elders/grandparents telling others about how people used to DIE from these things.
People hear about getting cancer or dementia or whatever all the time, but haven’t actually seen the old-school childhood illnesses from tainted milk or viruses or the like, so people make the wrong choice because it’s not apparent from their own life experience how bad those illnesses were since they don’t have family that talks about people they knew who got sick and died. The science is too abstract for them to internalize, but “choosing your own food” feels good and feels like you’re in control…so people go down that route instead because they haven’t seen the consequences of salmonella in their own family or in their friends (because there’s a lot of barriers in places, including pasteurization of milk, to try to stop/prevent outbreaks.)
Worth adding that the current bird flu outbreak that’s spilled over to dairy cows is another significant risk with raw milk that doesn’t exist in pasteurized milk. Relevant source with some details on how it affects the poor farm cats
Raw milk is one of the leading ways of getting the new avian flu
Some people get crazy about it.
The US in general had some way worse listeria outbreaks than Europe did in the window where pasteurization laws were first becoming things anyone was considering, so we start from a much more “your milk will be made safe” place.
As a result, raw milk, while still uncommon, can be sold in stores or other “normal” retail settings in most of Europe, and it’s probably what will be used for cheese manufacturing.
In the US, it’s only available via stores that sell it exclusively via club membership, and you might get raided by the USDA if they suspect you’re trying to skirt the rules about membership. (Some stores have done hourly membership that comes with a free gallon of milk). Milk must also be pasteurized before being used for cheese, which creates a market for black market cheeses that can’t be made with pasteurized milk but aren’t cost effective to import past the various taxes we put on luxury cheese.
As a result most Americans are either far more wary of raw milk, because our laws were written before modern milking practices reduced sanitary concerns to what we accept for meat, or they develop a persecution complex and ascribe it quasi-magical powers, ironically often getting it from places that don’t follow the sanitary practices that render it likely benign.
The thing to keep in mind when you compare the saga of turn of the century milk production between Europe and the US/Canada is the immigrant population. There just wasn’t a market for milk in the urban setting in Europe because everyone knew it was deadly since the Roman times.
Compare that to New York, where they had a large influx of immigrants from small farming communities where children would often drink milk when young and they would buy milk that was sold out of unrefrigerated wagons coming from cows kept in confined spaces within the city. It was murderous, with tens of thousands of children’s deaths in New York City alone. Of course this was the age of Cholera so the lives of people in cities came cheap.
The plain truth was adding formalin, which has no safe dose itself, was safer than drinking that shit the way they were selling it. North American cities quickly banned unpasteurized milk once the causal relationship was proven (despite the milkmen complaining).
That’s great context for the “why” on those outbreaks, thanks!
It’s really good if you want to catch an infection. My father in law had cows, would always boil the milk before consuming it because he didn’t want to get sick.
It’s what you want for cheese and butter making. Other than that, it’s probably a reason there was a fair bit of kids that died before pasteurization.
When I was a kid, we still had milk cows so I probably dodged a bullet, and it wasn’t that my parents were some back-to-the-earth whackos, it was just Canadian rural life in the 70s. I do remember milk tasting better then though.
I grew up milking cows and drinking raw milk as well. The reason we didn’t get sick was because of the basic quality control we did as routine. In order for the pathogens to cause illness it needs three things: innoculum, time to grow and the right temperature to grow at.
The milk was immediately put into the fridge when we brought it in. It stayed in the fridge until it was used.
When you have 1-2 gallons coming into the house every day, you use a lot of milk and use it constantly. You don’t put a gallon in the fridge and drink over 2-3 weeks. You have to consume, process or dump it because the fridge only holds so much and you only have so many jugs. We made butter and cheese every week at least. No gallon lasted in the fridge more than 5-6 days. Usually it was used in 2-3 days.
We knew the cow well. When she was sick or had an infection, we dumped the milk. We had to give ours antibiotics for mastitis a few times. We dumped the milk until the antibiotic was out of her system as well.
Any jug that smelled off was dumped. It wasn’t a big deal since we had another gallon coming in a few hours.
Yah, you always milked off the first bit on the ground or to the cats. We sold a little bit to the dairy so we didn’t end up wasting a lot, and everything went to the fridge quickly. On the other hand, I loved milk and on a hot day I’ve drank the better part of a gallon by myself so there wasn’t much chance of it laying around. I did stop doing that when I realized how god-awful many calories whole milk has in it.
The marketing is good
From what i remember it tastes really good
There’s a similar movement going on in the UK right now
From what I can get from a quick google normal homogenized milk can lead to health problems (but don’t get scared its not poison). Instead it’s better to drink organic milk that’s not homogenized.
And I would say let the farmers drink raw milk, they know the health of their cows best.
Edit: Of course milk should be pasteurised, it’s the homogenisation that should be avoided. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homogenization_(chemistry)
Do you mean pasteurized? Homogenized just means that the milk is mixed so there isn’t a fat layer.
Also it can be pasteurized and still organic. So I am suspicious of your understanding here.
He already said he “only did a quick google” so it’s fair to say there is no understanding. Love the vague “health problems” as the reason to avoid safe milk too lol.
Pasteurized organic milk is safe.
I did not write that you should drink raw milk.
I think the issue is that you felt the need to write anything at all. You admittedly know nothing about it and just gave confusing information based on a cursory internet search.
I’ll make sure to only write when I have something peer reviewed to report.
I think we’d be happy with “remotely relevant” or even “well researched”. I’m not sure what you were going for.
Ok well you replied to a comment asking the benefits of raw milk, in a thread about raw milk. Your off topic comment is therefore misleading.
This has nothing to do with anything, but I know what homogenized means in the context of milk, but when I was a kid, I used to think it meant milk from different cows had been mixed. Like, that’s why the called it homogenized. That they were, for some reason, mandated to make giant vats of cow-juice from millions of cows, and stir it together before they could sell it.
Homogenisation is done by forcing milk through a hole at high pressure this breaks up the fat into small particles.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homogenization_(chemistry)
Of course milk should be pasteurised, it’s the homogenisation that should be avoided.
So what is the problem with homogenization? You like big fat globs instead of small ones? You want fat to separate out for better health? It’s just a mechanical treatment.
Nonsense.
It can be healthier, if it doesn’t make you sick. You gotta be used to it though
So, yes but actually no and it should be avoided for the reasons we have regulations about the sale of milk?