education, money, AND RETIREMENT FUNDING
mofos
Not directly to your question, but I dislike this NPR article very much.
Mwandjalulu dreamed of becoming a carpenter or electrician as a child. And now he’s fulfilling that dream. But that also makes him an exception to the rule. While Gen Z — often described as people born between 1997 and 2012 — is on track to become the most educated generation, fewer young folks are opting for traditionally hands-on jobs in the skilled trade and technical industries.
The entire article contains a buried classist assumption. Carpenters have just as much a reason to study theater, literature, or philosophy as, say, project managers at tech companies (those three examples are from PMs that I’ve worked with). Being educated and a carpenter are only in tension because of decisions that we’ve made, because having read Plato has as much in common with being a carpenter as it does with being a PM. Conversely, it would be fucking lit if our society had the most educated plumbers and carpenters in the world.
NPR here is treating school as job training, which is, in my opinion, the root problem. Job training is definitely a part of school, but school and society writ large have a much deeper relationship: An educated public is necessary for a functioning democracy. 1 in 5 Americans is illiterate. If we want a functioning democracy, then we need to invest in everyone’s education for its own sake, rather than treat it as a distinguishing feature between lower classes and upper ones, and we need to treat blue collar workers as people who also might wish to be intellectually fulfilled, rather than as a monolithic class of people who have some innate desire to work with their hands and avoid book learning (though those kinds of people need also be welcomed).
Occupations such as auto technician with aging workforces have the U.S. Chamber of Commerce warning of a “massive” shortage of skilled workers in 2023.
This is your regular reminder that the Chamber of Commerce is a private entity that represents capital. Everything that they say should be taken with a grain of salt. There’s a massive shortage of skilled workers for the rates that businesses are willing to pay, which has been stagnant for decades as corporate profits have gone up. If you open literally any business and offer candidates enough money, you’ll have a line out the door to apply.
The second half is me. I absolutely loved being a carpenter for the 3 years that I did it. But I left the field because I knew the pay ceiling wouldn’t be like in the days when my dad was my age. So, I moved to an office job that pays more than the guys in charge of work sites were (and are currently) making and I get actual benefits. I’d go back to it in a heartbeat if the pay and benefits were better, and I don’t mean matching my current ones, just definitely middle class.
I do wonder what will happen when the number of people in the trades reduces because young adults aren’t going into them such that people can see it and feel it. Will the corps raise wages and improve benefits? Will the federal government make immigration easier or restart the WPA like during the Great Depression? I don’t know. What I do know is that my buddy who’s 35 is always one of the youngest electricians on job sites and that can’t be good for the trades.
Damn, what a good way to think about this. Thanks for the post.
Fund a Top Gun style movie only about carpenters, plumbers, and HVAC guys. ;)
On August 26, 1935, the United Auto Workers established an elite union for all auto mechanics. Its purpose was to teach the lost art of collective bargaining and to ensure that all the union members were the best compensated mechanics in the world.
They succeeded
Today, the UAW calls it a union. The mechanics call it:
TOP WRENCH
Actually, my office is in the maintenance building, so I see all those guys every day. It really could make for an entertaining movie. Like a handyman version of Waiting.
Free training and increase the minimum wage while tying it to inflation.
Skilled trades are generally union, the training is free through a union. If you go to a trade school or college, there are scholarships and sponsorships.
In my area electricians and plumbers apprentices make around $20/hr with raises every 6 months.
only reason i haven’t applied to apprenticeships is they still drug test in my area. in a state where marijuana is recreationally legal.
You may want to check their policy. In my state weed is legal and the electricians union drug tests but they don’t care if weed is detected. I don’t know about other unions, but I imagine they are similar.
If you are high all the time, don’t waste anybody’s time applying. If you are an occasional smoker or relax after a hard day, then you will be fine. They don’t hand out jobs paying $55/hr to just anybody, you need to be on-time or early and prove you deserve a place in the union, so showing up high one time can torpedo that career real fast.
i really only use it for pain/anxiety after my shift. i currently have a union job in a school district, so i am in an okay place but i could do better in a trade. i might try to find out how strict these drug policies are (current job doesn’t bother testing). thanks for your input!
Call around, not just one local. Sometimes one will care but the other won’t even thought they are in the same field.
no one should be made to work. they should be incentivized and the opportunities should be easily accessible.
How so?
good pay, nice benefits, ample opportunity. same as any other jobs.
The market is taking care of itself - the article appears to be concerned that the relatively cheap jobs are not being filled at the previous going rate. I work in the trades, and average wage has gone up 40% in 10 years, and everyone is still hurting for new electricians, so this wage growth will increase for the foreseeable future. Classrooms are full of students seeing those wages… the market is taking care of itself.
A large disincentive for the trades is the heat of the south, and the lower barrier to entry of those states is evident in the construction standards and output. Still wages will have to increase there, or work won’t get done.
A lot of these articles pine for people willing to work at the previous low wage for a position, and much good may that do them.
That’s always the crux of every employment issue,
“We need more workers but we won’t pay to entice. Damn entitled youth”
Really sucks when the free market cuts both ways.
Civil Construction programs.
Basically military-like program for infrastructure. Sign up for 4 years, we’ll train you in an in demand trade, put you through the apprenticeship and pay you the whole time. Then send you to build infrastructure and work in construction around the country. Any out of region jobs would include housing.
Cities, counties, states, and federal government would be required that x% of all government construction projects are to be done by this civilian construction program.
Stop with the relentless “Everyone should go to college “ BS
Yes, historically college graduates make more over their lifetime; but if everyone has a college degree, and or every job requires a degree, especially when it really doesn’t need to; you devalue a degree.
I’d push for a CCC for the trades. You’re likely to have to leave home, but we’ll hire you for …2-3 years and train you. No debt, you’ll get paid the whole time, and when you’re done you’ll be good to go
We’ve spent the last few hundred years deciding which people are better than others, and then go surprised Pikachu when nobody wants to do the jobs that we’ve dubbed “inferior”.
Universal healthcare and supporting trade unionization expansion.
You know what I think about sometimes is how it’s so weird that in America it’s the duty of our employers to provide health insurance, meaning it’s a cost to the business. Universal healthcare would free up shitloads of capital and have a huge impact on small businesses’ staying power.
Absolutely would
I’m convinced that health insurance companies continually lobby Congress to prevent any gor of universal healthcare so that they can continue to leech off the American public. Hell, tax filing companies have already been doing just that for decades.
Cut war funding
Increase education funding
Raise taxes on the billionaire class
I agree we should do those things, but I don’t think that would increase trade job attractiveness.
I’m a 3 trade branch manager and the overwhelming commonality that drives motivation is telling the apprentices how much they can make a year consistently.
I had a guy who wouldn’t touch drains (plumbers mostly are above that for some reason) until he found out that he could make $150K/year as a drain tech (no license needed generally). Proved it with one of his peers and he literally switched his tune immediately.
Average HVAC service techs should be at $100K. Good electricians are at $200K+.
Yeah, they make a lot more than most people. That’s what they should be telling young people. Like working with your hands or you’re a visual learner? Trades is where you should be. You’ll be happy, well paid, and have an amazing sense of accomplishment every day. It’s a great living.
Tell me more about this drain tech please.
Basically, drain techs unclog drains with drain snakes or augers. They can also scope the drain with a 100’ inspection camera to see what is causing a clog. Could be roots ingressing a drain or a clay pipe that’s cracking. That’s where the big money is because replacing the pipe is the only long lasting solution. Some companies do pipe lining but that’s a bandaid for more year instead of decades. Replacing the pipe can involve excavating and concrete removal. Gets expensive fast. We’re doing a job that involves excavating 8’ down to the main drain, replacing 20’ of pipe and then covering it back up, demoing concrete to replace the basement line, and repairing concrete. $15k and the tech gets 8% of the sale and 10% if they do the work for a total of 18%. $2,700 gross isn’t bad for a hard day or 2 days work.
Fucking public works projects. Announced early. Work with schools to pipeline kids to trade schools. Work with trade schools to set people up with jobs in public works projects.
Stop letting college and college board run the fucking country. We push kids away from trade school. We shove them in college. We shove them in AP courses. We do not give a fuck what is good for the student. We only care that they do what makes the school look good and/or more money.
The unions don’t let in enough people for one. Thousands apply for a few dozen to a hundred spots per year for locals that cover major metropolitan areas.
The demand for the work is far greater than the desire to do the work.
Union carpenters in my area make about $33 an hour, starting off at around $14-16. Compare that to a union plumber who makes $55 an hour, starting at $20/hr. Carpentry pay is too low and plumbing can be some really shitty work. Both do hard work that is somewhat technical, it ain’t rocket surgery, but there is a fair amount of math involved and understanding diagrams.
I would work to address the barrier to entry to unions, but that won’t fix the fault of the person who should do the work but won’t regardless of the pay and benefits.
- Government grants/scholarships for skilled trades predicted by federal employment office to have a shortfall in either workers or colleges in the near future.
- Federal standardization of all education (if this isn’t the case already) to simplify importing workers out of state
- Increased unemployment benefits for trades to ease off-season/low demand periods and make the career more attractive
- grade-school/high-school and general media propaganda to improve public opinion of ‘grunt workers’
or do absolutely nothing and let the free market figure it out like we’re told it will
Good to see Kamala Harris posting on Lemmy
