removed from everything else, having a large group of actionable people who you grant special rights to who oppose the entire existence of your state is fucking stupid statebuilding. How many state level checks and hurdles do you gotta botch to arrive at this point
The Zionists needed the Haredi Jews to cloak their settler colonial project in Jewish clothing. Having a “Jewish State” while expelling the only ones in the land that actually practiced Judaism and knew what Judaism was would not have worked from a PR standpoint but it was always going to lead to this contradiction becoming untenable. I think their hope was that the Haredi children and grandchildren would buy into the Zionist project in a way their fathers refused to. And in some ways they were right with significant divides within the international Hardi community over the state of Israel and the emergence of “religious Zionism”. One major issue the state faces is that the military is one of its main tools of “education” for the Zionist religion or whatever you want to call it but the Haredi children were not being processed through that machine and were, therefor, not turning into “good Zionists”.
So ultra Orthodox jews have better praxis than reformed judaism?
I really don’t get the current religion tbh, only thing I have to go off of is my vague theory that modern judaism is just the pharisees plus a smidgen of sadducees.
You may be surprised, especially when it comes to Zionism. This might get me in real trouble with any reform Jewish comrades lurking in here, so let me caveat it by saying that there are anti-Zionist reform congregations in the US that do great work support Palestine.
Because Reform Judaism stripped itself of all content of the traditional Jewish religion, it essentially evolved into a a denominational religion with its only difference with Protestant Christianity being essentially a “national” one. Couple that with the fact that it was created as a version of Judaism for rich, assimilated, German Jews, and it is pretty easy to figure out why some of the most radical Jewish Zionists emerge from reform synagogues. Compare that to Haredi Jews that get posted on here frequently meeting with Palestinian leaders, getting called “monsters” by white American Zionists for protesting the state of Israel, etc and it is easy to conclude that, yes, many Haredi Jews do have better praxis. They also have the advantage of deeply understanding what Judaism is and is not (or at least being taught it) whereas reform Jews (who are, basically by definition, assimilated westerners either living in or directly tied to the economy or the imperial core), unless they happen to have been raised in a radical leftist congregation (they exist), may have never been even presented with the basic facts of the connection (or lack thereof) of the religion they subscribe to and Zionism.
But if you are a real leftist, the support for the Haredi Jews must remain critical support. Even if they come down on the side of the anti-Zionists, they still grapple with and are dominated by highly reactionary viewpoint especially in regards to women. But that is like normal religious tension that you see in Muslim and Christian communities as well.
Not reform here, im reconstructionist. But yeah lots of Reform jews are Zionist and many many Conservative Jews are highly zionist as well.
To add to this, yeah Israel has done a lot of work to make people conflate Judaism as a religion with Zionism and muddying the waters, when Zionism is first and foremost a secular settler colonialist ideology.
Which sect has the story of a guy who turned himself into a rock at the gates of heaven so he wouldn’t have to go to hell? Not sure why but I am pretty sure there is some sort of picaresque jewish legend out there.
Yeah i don’t know what the longterm plan was. I guess they thought it would change.
I don’t know what their plan is right now either. Assuming Israel is still around in 10 years time they will have to do widespread repression of 50% of the entire population.
If I wanted to end Israel I’d do it by organising them.
removed from everything else, having a large group of actionable people who you grant special rights to who oppose the entire existence of your state is fucking stupid statebuilding. How many state level checks and hurdles do you gotta botch to arrive at this point
The Zionists needed the Haredi Jews to cloak their settler colonial project in Jewish clothing. Having a “Jewish State” while expelling the only ones in the land that actually practiced Judaism and knew what Judaism was would not have worked from a PR standpoint but it was always going to lead to this contradiction becoming untenable. I think their hope was that the Haredi children and grandchildren would buy into the Zionist project in a way their fathers refused to. And in some ways they were right with significant divides within the international Hardi community over the state of Israel and the emergence of “religious Zionism”. One major issue the state faces is that the military is one of its main tools of “education” for the Zionist religion or whatever you want to call it but the Haredi children were not being processed through that machine and were, therefor, not turning into “good Zionists”.
So ultra Orthodox jews have better praxis than reformed judaism?
I really don’t get the current religion tbh, only thing I have to go off of is my vague theory that modern judaism is just the pharisees plus a smidgen of sadducees.
You may be surprised, especially when it comes to Zionism. This might get me in real trouble with any reform Jewish comrades lurking in here, so let me caveat it by saying that there are anti-Zionist reform congregations in the US that do great work support Palestine.
Because Reform Judaism stripped itself of all content of the traditional Jewish religion, it essentially evolved into a a denominational religion with its only difference with Protestant Christianity being essentially a “national” one. Couple that with the fact that it was created as a version of Judaism for rich, assimilated, German Jews, and it is pretty easy to figure out why some of the most radical Jewish Zionists emerge from reform synagogues. Compare that to Haredi Jews that get posted on here frequently meeting with Palestinian leaders, getting called “monsters” by white American Zionists for protesting the state of Israel, etc and it is easy to conclude that, yes, many Haredi Jews do have better praxis. They also have the advantage of deeply understanding what Judaism is and is not (or at least being taught it) whereas reform Jews (who are, basically by definition, assimilated westerners either living in or directly tied to the economy or the imperial core), unless they happen to have been raised in a radical leftist congregation (they exist), may have never been even presented with the basic facts of the connection (or lack thereof) of the religion they subscribe to and Zionism.
But if you are a real leftist, the support for the Haredi Jews must remain critical support. Even if they come down on the side of the anti-Zionists, they still grapple with and are dominated by highly reactionary viewpoint especially in regards to women. But that is like normal religious tension that you see in Muslim and Christian communities as well.
Not reform here, im reconstructionist. But yeah lots of Reform jews are Zionist and many many Conservative Jews are highly zionist as well.
To add to this, yeah Israel has done a lot of work to make people conflate Judaism as a religion with Zionism and muddying the waters, when Zionism is first and foremost a secular settler colonialist ideology.
Which sect has the story of a guy who turned himself into a rock at the gates of heaven so he wouldn’t have to go to hell? Not sure why but I am pretty sure there is some sort of picaresque jewish legend out there.
Yeah i don’t know what the longterm plan was. I guess they thought it would change.
I don’t know what their plan is right now either. Assuming Israel is still around in 10 years time they will have to do widespread repression of 50% of the entire population.
If I wanted to end Israel I’d do it by organising them.