Politicians will always disappoint you. There will always be things left undone, done poorly, or done in a way you disagree with. Everybody needs to get used to this and learn we vote for the least bad, not the most good.
Politicians will always disappoint you. There will always be things left undone, done poorly, or done in a way you disagree with. Everybody needs to get used to this
Why?
Why does everyone have to get used to and just blindly accept that the system is shit and doesn’t serve them or make their lives any better?
Why are you so comfortable settling for so little?
Why don’t you want better for yourself, and worse, think you get to demand the same of others?
(I don’t need your answers, these are all for you and those who agree with you to ask yourselves)
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This is an imperfect world.
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Democracy is necessarily the function of creating coalitions of compromise between literal millions of people, all with different interests and concerns.
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Politicians, as a career, self-select for ambition and ego, and that comes with certain implications in even the best of them.
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Jesus fucking Christ, is it really so little to not want to die or see my friends and family horribly oppressed?
No intermediate steps allowed, no development of material conditions, no war of maneuver. Hole in one or don’t play.
This is my strategy for anything artistic… drawing, music, painting, anything like that.
If I’m not getting offers from the Louvre 30 minutes in… is there really any point at all?
Is this an argument for voting third party or against? Because third party might not be the Louvre calling this time…
Just saying I suck at art…😉
Change is effected not overnight, but by continuous small wins peppered with numerous setbacks
yeah i too just free hand an entire bridge in one go, no mathematical checking, or double checking anything, i don’t even get someone else to overlook it, i just wing that shit one handed!
Plus getting upset about this shit is fucking exhausting.
then don’t
literally, just don’t. You don’t need to care, nobody is asking you to care. It may seem brash, but sit down and think about it for a bit.
Tons of people are asking me to care. They say that I’m not a good citizen if I don’t pay attention to the news, even if it upsets me.
“If you’re not angry you haven’t been paying attention.”
ask them why they care if you care.
Ask yourself why you care if they care.
unless the problem is directly related to you, there is simply very little that can immediately be done about the problem, and if there is very little that can be done about it, do the minimal amount of effort needed to accomplish something and move on, or simply don’t worry about it.
Not everybody in society has to care about the same problems. Find something that you can make a difference in, and make a difference in that thing. You’ll be doing your part for society.
Be mad about things that you can be productive on, not things that you can’t be, otherwise you can’t be productive.
is it really so little to not want to die or see my friends and family horribly oppressed?
well i mean it depends on what you mean by this, you will inevitably die, so, idk how you plan on getting around that one. Oppression is an incredibly broad and complex topic, or the simplest of them with no indirect explanation. The answer is the same though, do shit to change public sentiment.
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Why?
even if it goes perfectly, you’ll be left wanting more.
In what world will a politician never disappoint you?
I’m generally in full control of myself and even I disappoint myself - fringe third party candidates are not the political messiah some people think they are.
I don’t understand how this is the argument against third party. Why does the candidate need to be the Messiah to be better than Kamala?
The question was why do we need to accept that politicians will disappoint you, implying that they had something they believed would not disappoint them.
I thought it was a third party candidate.
Apparently it was anarchism.
Rookie Lemmy mistake.
In a world where “politician” isn’t a career, or even a thing that exists, and instead people make decisions communally and horizontally. It’s called anarchism.
You not knowing or being able to imagine alternatives, doesn’t mean none exist.
Being able to imagine alternatives doesn’t mean they’re realistic.
How realistic do you think this is?
Amen
Cuz it’s democracy. If you wanted someone to be in office who would get everything done with no obstacles no roadblocks and no delays then you wouldn’t be looking at democracy you’d want a dictator. You can want that if you want but just be honest about it.
Lmfao, except you don’t have democracy. You have oligarchy and kleptocracy and plutocracy. You also don’t have a government that is “getting everything done without obstacles”, but pretty much the literal fucking opposite. The fact that the only alternative you can imagine to the current (non democratic, slipping in to fascism) state of affairs is a dictatorship is a problem with your lack of imagination and narrow view of the world (though granted, you were heavily indoctrinated that way), not a reflection of reality, nor the array of other ways that society can not only exist, but thrive.
There was good reason I told you people to ask yourselves these questions - you are the ones standing in your own way with your insistence of living according to a full blown fallacy because you’re just comfortable enough with the way things are, and are too scared of change, specifically no longer holding the privileges the current system grants you in exchange for your compliance, and the idea that you might not have anyone to feel superior to.
Until you’re willing and able to face that within yourself, I can’t help you, nor am Interested in hearing the mental gymnastics you do to justify your actively maintaining the status quo. ¯\(ツ)/¯
You have oligarchy and kleptocracy and plutocracy.
none of these are accurate, except for maybe plutocracy.
Gerontocracy would be more accurate.
It’s fundamentally not an oligarchy, that’s just not true. Trump didn’t do fuck all during his term for this exact reason. It’s obviously not a kleptocracy, unless you have like, actual proof of this. Trump being a good one, but that’s not a historical precedent.
If Trump did nothing then why are people so scared of him winning the election?
How do you figure we don’t have an Oligarchy? There is more than just the executive branch of our government by the way. There’s also the Legislative, Judicial, and Black Rock.
If Trump did nothing then why are people so scared of him winning the election?
because a leader that does nothing is an ineffectual leader. You want a leader that does something not nothing.
this also ignores the part where he tried to like, overthrow democracy, and ruin the government, but nobody likes to talk about that part.
How do you figure we don’t have an Oligarchy?
an oligarchy would be something like russia, The US as you said has multiple branches, the executive being the most front facing. You’ve got the judicial and legislative branches as well. The legislative branch (congress) is literally made up of hundreds of people. People that WE vote in.
black rock is also not a branch of the government, they’re a private investment firm.
With citizens united, don’t you think it’s relevant that campaigns can accept large amounts of money? Like voters can see endless ads of one candidate if they have enough money. Campaigns can hire PIs to dig up dirt and air it. Money in a capitalist country confers power.
The only politician who won’t disappoint you on every issue is yourself. Run for office. No joke. Use your rights. Vote. Speak. Run for office.
Not using those rights is functionally the same as not having them.
I doubt that. My dad got elected to a town council and was pretty disappointed about what the system let him accomplish.
Can you explain more?
One really good example is the stroad that’s preventing good bike infrastructure. The roads that are managed by the township have bike lanes - even if they’re not separated - but the stroad is a state route, so we have no bike lanes on the main connection between these lanes, and limited pedestrian infrastructure.
This is why we have kids getting bussed to the school that’s across the road from their house.
So how is that situation an argument against people running for office? Like jobs are meant to be challenging and work, it’s not like being elected then grants you a magic wand to seamlessly solve issues.
Because it sounds even more frustrating than just voting for someone.
It’s not about frustrating or trolling people though. It’s about seizing power granted to you by law
Voters will always disappoint you. There will always be things left undone, done poorly, or done in a way you disagree with. Everybody needs to get used to this and learn we vote for the least bad, not the most good.
Yeah, that too.
“To summarize the summary of the summary: People are a problem.”
Haha. That’s pretty good. The point I was trying to make is that it doesn’t make sense to me to hold voters to a higher standard of conduct than the politicians that they vote for.
The difference is campaigns spend over a billion dollars these days and don’t even try to convince voters.
They do anything for donations to spend on fundraisers for more donations, and they just go round and round. Every revolution everyone involved skims a little.
If it costs over a billion dollars to beat trump in an election, maybe we should worry less about donations and more about votes.
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We don’t live in a perfect world. Someone is going to be president for the next 4 years, and at this stage of the game we have 2 distinct choices.
Also, what you called half-assed someone else might call the democracy process. Just because YOU want something doesn’t mean I want the same thing. Your vision for how to solve Palestine or Ukraine or improve wealth equality might be vastly different from mine. Just because you don’t get exactly what you want doesn’t mean the system is useless or not worth participating in. If you were to get exactly what you want, then I’d be getting walked over. If I get exactly what I want, then you’d say you are not being heard.
The only fair system is to elect a big-tent party and then work through dialog on trying to reach either consensus or fair compromise on the various topics. But we won’t have that option if we let the fascists get control and do their Project 2025 thing while ignoring us.
It boils down to good politics is boring and full of compromise.
Lot’s of talking and compromise doesn’t make for good headlines or
scaremotivate voters to the polls. There is room to add the large media companies to the blame of ‘perfection’ since they are always looking for the imperfect to talk about. And then they bash that imperfect-ness into the ground.
we should be voting for the person with the most solutions that would improve the world as well as country.
well, i would remove the whole world portion, because that’s an extremely broad brush and can cause problems. It’s better to just focus on having the best and most productive leadership possible, the more advancement you can do the better.
This has been kind of a half ass last four years hasn’t it?
A more nuanced version of this is, if you live in a state that has 0% chance of swinging, feel free to do a protest vote. Voting for Jill Stein or write in Bernie Sanders in California or Wyoming will not change anything, on the other hand if you do funny votes in Pennsylvania or Georgia you are worse than MAGA people.
Even if you are in a Blue State, the US needs to overwhelmingly reject Trump both in electoral and popular vote.
Otherwise a Trump replacement will pop up in 4 years.
Otherwise a Trump replacement will pop up in 4 years.
i doubt they’ll find one, but it’s a worrying possibility.
Trump replacements will pop up every 4 years until the end of the USA.
Yes, with electoral college that strategy is acceptable… buuuuuut…
DON’T sleep for a second on the downballot races, for House Rep., Senator, Governor, state positions, ballot measures (including on a woman’s right to an abortion), and everything else applicable to you on Election Day. DON’T stay home even if you don’t like your choice of President/VP or that your state won’t affect who will reside in the Oval Office.
Any of these other races can be close. Each has a piece of a government that has big effects on many of the issues you care about.
NO ONE is a perfect candidate
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good
Here is another take. You vote for both:
- The group that most closely resembles what you want AND
- The group that most likely will listen to your requests during the administration
If there are things you want changed, Nov 5 is not the last day but the beginning. The next president will make decisions for 4 years, and every decision is influenced by people and our voices.
Ask yourself, between Harris and Trump, which administration is most likely to want the things I want, and which is most likely to listen and be influenced by my side of political views and the people I support?
For me, the answer is a hard NO on Trump, and a pretty solid Yes on Harris.
Like the other thread abut guns. Sure, the Dems talk about wanting gun reform and it never gets done because they don’t have a super majority in Congress. But the GOP is 100% against it and will never contribute. Which side is more likely to do anything to help the reform I want to see? 4 years of Dems is a good amount of time to press for issues and seek some improvements. If I let the GOP have 4 more years, we are not even going to talk about change until the next election.
Those that are willing to sit out an election because the Dems are not perfect, are inflicting the worst candidate on all of us and themselves. Don’t you dare later complain about school shootings, wealth inequality, tax cuts for the rich, abuse of queer folks, women’s rights, international inhumane policy. Don’t inflict Trump on us and then pretend to care about our issues or be on our side. If you sit out, you’ve picked a side.
I’d just like to clarify that presidential elections are not the only time to vote if you want to see any actual change. There are elections every year. Keep up to date on what’s going on in your state, in your county, in your city or town, and actually put the work in.
Most of the people in power got there by being elected to other positions years ago.
I’m still going to tick the Kamala box, but I’m ashamed of how little she’s trying to be a good candidate. After Nov4, I’ll get going with direct action.
Exactly, her winning is not the end. We need to apply a massive amount of pressure since she is a neoliberal.
What specifically do you think she should do better on?
Main issue for most people is the fact that she’s not trying harder to stop Israel from killing Palestinians.
Well, there’s not much she can do atm as vice-president. It’s very well-known that Biden is very pro-Israeli.
Her rhetoric on the topic as a candidate has been very mixed. She’s been improving since she had that meeting with Uncommitted leaders. Hopefully she can have a better plan than “ask nicely for a ceasefire” to present to voters before the election.
We operate with a vibes based approach here
No American here. I ask myself, does a third candidate have any real chance of getting enough votes to gain visibility in the media and elsewhere? Even if it is for future elections?
I don’t know the answer, but if it’s no and you know it and still decide to vote for a third candidate, you’re an idiot. Work to make this a reality within four years, for the next four years, if you don’t do it and just complain you’re an asshole.
The trouble with never voting for a 3rd party is that you enable the 2 party system, which fundamentally promotes tribalism, division, and corruption.
Whats worse is that it snowballs and is completely out of control. There was a time when I would say that it’s worth voting for a candidate that will never get elected to sway future policy, but although it’s always felt like the other guy I’d going to ruin everything, it’s truer now than it has ever been. And it won’t stop at Trump. Trump could be dead, some equally craven ghoul would take his place. That ship will never turn, it will only pull away from the Democrats. Nothing can ever progress. There is only the fight.
America is a cautionary tale.
If your country is lucky enough to have 3 or more major political forces, keep that alive.
vote for voting reform in your state. That solves most of that problem.
There is an option if you really care enough about this. It works to promote a third party during the four years between presidential elections. local, state and federal elections in the middle of the electoral cycle are much more influential than is often believed and if enough people work on it, it would not be so unimaginable for a third candidate to have the proper impact. Watch the tea party and follow their example in the opposite direction.
If you don’t care enough to work on it for four years, well, maybe you don’t care enough
I don’t understand how you can get this so easily but people in our own damn country are literally not capable
Many of them are perfectly capable, but simply don’t care if Trump wins, despite their claims. They’re fine with fascism, as long as they don’t have to feel bad.
Some people disgust me ngl
if they do they won’t drop out, and they won’t be a green party candidate.
It’s that simple, if a third party drops out it’s because they think they’re going to harm the chances of one side winning the vote.
The likelihood of a third party winning is very low. Especially if they’re an independent.
We can change the Dems and push them towards actually being good by just uncritically voting for them every election I see no flaw in this plan.
Not to mention showing up for the primaries too.
It fucking mystifies me that people will condemn the dems for never voting for progressives in primaries, and then just never turn out to the primaries themselves.
Primary turnout is consistently pathetic and an abject condemnation of the wannabe revolutionaries who speak with fire then act with all the likewise energy of cosmic background radiation.
“I don’t understand what a primary is”, the voter.
Let me check who I could’ve voted for Dem presidential candidate this year in the primaries. Here’s the list:
Oh I should’ve voted in 2020? I could’ve chose between:
- Biden (no)
- Bernie “Israel has every right to defend itself” Sanders
- Bloomberg (lmao)
“Bernie Sanders isn’t pure enough for me” Jesus fucking Christ.
Like, how left do you think the electorate in this country is, exactly?
If it makes you feel any better I did vote for him in the primaries.
He’s one of the leftmost politicians in the entire country. And the electorate itself is not exactly ready to sing the Internationale. So you’re here bitching for what?
“Voting for the more left of the two parties won’t move them left!”
“Okay, vote for the leftmost candidate in the primaries.”
“None of them were pure enough for me.”
“Bernie is one of the leftmost figures in the entire country.”
“Well, I did vote for him.”
???
Did you vote for him expecting a Sanders victory wouldn’t move the party left? Were you just having fun filling out your ballot?
Fuck’s sake.
I don’t think electoralism is enough to overturn the system no. I’ll participate in it insofar as filling out a bubble takes almost no effort. Don’t expect me to be enthusiastic about it.
Moving the system left is not the same as overturning it. A leaning structure is easier to topple in a direction than an upright one.
Moving the system left and accepting that the system isn’t going to be simply voted into oblivion are not mutually exclusive.
Biden (no)
why not biden? His admin has been pretty productive in the term they’ve had thus far, pushing through multiple legislative accomplishments, only heeded by the worst of the worst (the border)
Could it be, among other things, unwavering support for a genocidal nation with b/millions in arms shipments to help them get it done?
i mean, that’s one reason to not vote for him.
Let’s have a look at the other candidate in the 2020 election:
- trump
oh…
Alright, so, being a single issue voter is bad, very bad, and if that’s your approach to political thought you should feel bad
and that includes if your single issue is Palestine
Best to wait until the opposition isn’t someone who will straight up take away your ability to vote in the first place.
I’ll be waiting here on this bench
wait im sorry what the fuck does this mean?
I’m so confused? This isn’t a russia disinformation post is it?
I’m 40yrs old. I voted for Hillary. I HATE the democrats, I HATE the republicans. Not once in 40yrs have they successfully reduced the budget, the closest was Clinton and we see how that turned out “erry budy gets a chek instead of healthy deflation”, both parties have ruled during severe drops in quality of living standards, both parties have to destroyed peoples lives with the failed war on drugs. Both parties are the finger puppets for the 1%. I refuse to play their game, we lose no matter what. Vote for your drug war baron that got famous for arresting people for marijuana possession. Vote for your conman that ruins small businesses by refusing to pay for their services. Both think you’re an idiot, and they can’t wait until your turn to be vulnerable to them. But sure, by not voting for the douche you are supporting the turd sandwich, in the same way by not getting a diesel gas car your supporting electric vehicles.
voting now has a decent chance of changing the historical precedence here, kamala and tim walz are two unusual candidates in this cycle. Neither really have the classic dem history of the political ruling class, like biden and the clintons.
I understand why you and many other people are extremely reluctant to vote/against voting in this election. But I feel your analogy is incorrect.
By not voting for the
douchebloodthirsty democrat you are supporting theturd sandwichfascist and (more) bloodthirsty republican, in the same way that not pulling the lever is supporting the death of more people on the train tracks.Not buying diesel/gas car =/= inherent passive support for electric in any way, but in a two party system, in an election like this one, not voting, or not voting democrat directly increases
pedestrian train deathsthe odds of america falling to a fascist party with a plan. You can vote * and still protest, petition, and riot against the policies you dont like.“Ha ha, it’s so funny when minorities are hurt more because I don’t feel like the suffering of oppressed demographics matter!”
not just minorities btw, everyone
Pretty typical of left leaning voters. Lots of issues, lots of arguing, very little in the way of coming together. Give the Right one thing: They will come together to fuck you over.
you mean to tell me that my two candidate options are dumb and dumber… And then thing1 and thing2? (i almost gotcha on that one)
Whatever will i do. What a hard decision.
I’d be voting PSL if I got a vote at all
You could make this meme replacing Harris with Trump in the text and replacing Trump with Harris in the pictures and it would be exactly as true, which is to say, not.
It’s the GOP that increases their chance of winning the fewer voters vote. They actively try to suppress voters. The more people that vote the higher chance the democrats win
Regardless, not voting or voting third party is not a vote for either major party’s candidate, as the meme implies.
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- 1 day old account
- Airs grievances for Kamala but not Trump
- Completely writes off marginalized groups
- Generalizes Kamala’s platform to “identity politics”
- Fails to take into account polls and the last election as reasons to vote
- Fails to elaborate on what they care about, just that Kamala hasn’t talked about it
Sure thing, comrade.
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You will wake up to Trump just like in 2016.
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This reads like angry ChatGPT. Get real bruh!
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I too thought Trumps candidacy a joke in 2016. How could anyone listen to him and still vote for him? After I got over the shock I pictured everyone in flyover states as that bully from Simpsons, “Ha-ha”
I’m sitting this one out too. Kamala has started to grate my mind because I’m not hearing her touch on things that I feel she should. It’s always been about identity politics and more undoing of Trump’s policies whatever is left.
what the fuck else are you supposed to focus on, im not even sure the federal government has fully recovered yet?
This is the one way you’re going to unify a voter base.
