Have you ever fired a gun while under time pressure? Like, for instance, in a 3 gun competition? Or shot at someone while they’re shooting at you? Misses in combat are common. Would you rather miss a lot with a firearm that only carries 7 bullets, or one that has 30?
Oh, and before you spread some fudd about shotguns pellets spreading and not needing to aim, at home defense distances–<10y–your shot pattern with no choke on a 30" barrel with 00 buckshot is going to be about 4". Firing a shotgun without it being braced on your shoulder? Good fucking luck hitting anything. And your shotgun is still going to be about half again as long-at a minimum–than a carbine.
Done a lot of skeet shooting. Agreed about comment with no shoulder stock but the imitation factor of a shotgun roar in an enclosed space is pretty potent, especially if your target holds a pistol.
Why try a shootout with someone with a fucken hand cannon? Easier targets to rob.
You know that AR doesn’t stand for assault rifle, right? The AR is for Armalite, the inventors of the design. It’s just a semiautomatic rifle with a detachable magazine, it’s pretty common to use as a hunting rifle.
And yeah, you see AR-15 and it’s workalikes all over the place because they’re flexible. Literally the most common rifle in the US. That’s why they’re so common in public mass shootings - those shooters generally aren’t buying a gun specifically for that sort of shooting, they’re using a gun they already have access to or what they can readily purchase off the shelf.
It’s not the best gun for any scenario, but it’s a good enough gun for most and that’s because it’s modular and the guns and parts are both commonly available.
To add to this - it’s modular because there’s a US military specification for it. As long as parts are to spec, they’re interchangeable. If I wreck my barrel, any AR-15 barrel (…that uses the same length of gas system…) should bolt on to my receiver. If I break my bolt carrier, any bold carrier should work. If the length of pull on a fixed stock isn’t good, I can get an adjustable stock.
‘Building’ an AR-15 from parts is only slightly harder and more expensive than building Star Wars Lego ™ kits. A bod-standard milspec AR-15 that’s reliable and accurate enough (3 MOA) can be had for about $450.
And, BTW, @Schadrach is absolutely right about it being a common hunting rifle. .223 Rem is commonly used for medium sized game and varmints; it’s commonly used for coyotes and feral pigs, and some people (depending on your state) use it for deer with heavier, 70-odd grain bullets.
You telling me a 12 gauge (hell, lets make it 10 guage for fun) in a tight space like your hallway or someone coming thru your doorway is worse that an AR15?
Why did the Germans try to get the trench gun banned in WW1? Because in close quarters (like inside a house) that shit is nasty.
Yes, it absolutely is. The only people suggesting that it’s not are fudds. At home-invasion distances, there is no effective spread on your pellets; your shotgun pattern is a single hole. That means that, yes, you need to put that shotgun to your shoulder, and you need to aim. Given that–outside of box mag fed shotguns–you get 8 shots or less in that shotgun, you better hope that you’re a really good shot when someone else is actively shooting back.
You know that the alternative in WWI was a bolt-action battle rifle, right? A pump or lever gun would have been far faster. The sturmgewehr StG-44 wasn’t invented until 1943; if it had been in existence in 1914, the Germans absolutely would have been using them in trench battles over. As it was, the Bergmann MP 18–the first real submachine gun, fielded in 1918, near the end of the war–gave a significant advantage in trench combat. (But by the time it hit front line troops, there wasn’t anything that could have stopped Germany from losing.)
Are they all Jason Bourne like fanatics who are willing to commit suicide in the process of killing you?
If they are, then you have done something seriously horrific and they are most likely justified in seeking your end.
…That’s quite a stretch, don’t you think? Bluntly, if anyone breaks into my home while I’m home, I’m going to assume that they’re intent on causing harm to me, because I’m sure as shit not going to politely ask them to fill out a questionnaire before acting.
First off the spread on a shotgun is not like a video game where your entire view is covered in lead. It’s still relatively grouped.
Second, the trench gun had a stock. The stock is important. It allows you to properly and quickly aim at what you’re trying to shoot. The WW1 'Trench Gunn had a stock.
If your goal is to take down home invaders, you want a stock on your shotgun.
If you just want to put lead in your walls and furniture, go with a folding stock one.
That being said, a gun is the least useful device you can acquire to help you during a home invasion. A firearm in your home is statistically more likely to cause accidental harm to you or your family than it is going to help you fight off hole invaders.
An ASSUALT rifle for home defense? How many rounds do you need to shoot to do the job?
Pump action shotgun with a folding stock would be far better.
Have you ever fired a gun while under time pressure? Like, for instance, in a 3 gun competition? Or shot at someone while they’re shooting at you? Misses in combat are common. Would you rather miss a lot with a firearm that only carries 7 bullets, or one that has 30?
Oh, and before you spread some fudd about shotguns pellets spreading and not needing to aim, at home defense distances–<10y–your shot pattern with no choke on a 30" barrel with 00 buckshot is going to be about 4". Firing a shotgun without it being braced on your shoulder? Good fucking luck hitting anything. And your shotgun is still going to be about half again as long-at a minimum–than a carbine.
Done a lot of skeet shooting. Agreed about comment with no shoulder stock but the imitation factor of a shotgun roar in an enclosed space is pretty potent, especially if your target holds a pistol.
Why try a shootout with someone with a fucken hand cannon? Easier targets to rob.
Are you willing to bet your life on that? Or would you rather stack the odds as heavily in your favor as you can?
You know that AR doesn’t stand for assault rifle, right? The AR is for Armalite, the inventors of the design. It’s just a semiautomatic rifle with a detachable magazine, it’s pretty common to use as a hunting rifle.
And yeah, you see AR-15 and it’s workalikes all over the place because they’re flexible. Literally the most common rifle in the US. That’s why they’re so common in public mass shootings - those shooters generally aren’t buying a gun specifically for that sort of shooting, they’re using a gun they already have access to or what they can readily purchase off the shelf.
It’s not the best gun for any scenario, but it’s a good enough gun for most and that’s because it’s modular and the guns and parts are both commonly available.
To add to this - it’s modular because there’s a US military specification for it. As long as parts are to spec, they’re interchangeable. If I wreck my barrel, any AR-15 barrel (…that uses the same length of gas system…) should bolt on to my receiver. If I break my bolt carrier, any bold carrier should work. If the length of pull on a fixed stock isn’t good, I can get an adjustable stock.
‘Building’ an AR-15 from parts is only slightly harder and more expensive than building Star Wars Lego ™ kits. A bod-standard milspec AR-15 that’s reliable and accurate enough (3 MOA) can be had for about $450.
And, BTW, @Schadrach is absolutely right about it being a common hunting rifle. .223 Rem is commonly used for medium sized game and varmints; it’s commonly used for coyotes and feral pigs, and some people (depending on your state) use it for deer with heavier, 70-odd grain bullets.
Folding stock shotgun is actually terrible, you could practice for years and still be less accurate than a cop with a proper stock on their firearm.
You telling me a 12 gauge (hell, lets make it 10 guage for fun) in a tight space like your hallway or someone coming thru your doorway is worse that an AR15?
Why did the Germans try to get the trench gun banned in WW1? Because in close quarters (like inside a house) that shit is nasty.
Yes, it absolutely is. The only people suggesting that it’s not are fudds. At home-invasion distances, there is no effective spread on your pellets; your shotgun pattern is a single hole. That means that, yes, you need to put that shotgun to your shoulder, and you need to aim. Given that–outside of box mag fed shotguns–you get 8 shots or less in that shotgun, you better hope that you’re a really good shot when someone else is actively shooting back.
You know that the alternative in WWI was a bolt-action battle rifle, right? A pump or lever gun would have been far faster. The sturmgewehr StG-44 wasn’t invented until 1943; if it had been in existence in 1914, the Germans absolutely would have been using them in trench battles over. As it was, the Bergmann MP 18–the first real submachine gun, fielded in 1918, near the end of the war–gave a significant advantage in trench combat. (But by the time it hit front line troops, there wasn’t anything that could have stopped Germany from losing.)
How many people are entering the house?
Are they all Jason Bourne like fanatics who are willing to commit suicide in the process of killing you?
If they are, then you have done something seriously horrific and they are most likely justified in seeking your end.
House robbers? Fuck that, why would they get into a gun fight with someone blowing holes in their own walls? Easier targets to burgle than that.
In this case, it was three armed home intruders, plus a getaway driver.
…That’s quite a stretch, don’t you think? Bluntly, if anyone breaks into my home while I’m home, I’m going to assume that they’re intent on causing harm to me, because I’m sure as shit not going to politely ask them to fill out a questionnaire before acting.
It’s not the shot, it’s the stock.
First off the spread on a shotgun is not like a video game where your entire view is covered in lead. It’s still relatively grouped.
Second, the trench gun had a stock. The stock is important. It allows you to properly and quickly aim at what you’re trying to shoot. The WW1 'Trench Gunn had a stock.
If your goal is to take down home invaders, you want a stock on your shotgun.
If you just want to put lead in your walls and furniture, go with a folding stock one.
That being said, a gun is the least useful device you can acquire to help you during a home invasion. A firearm in your home is statistically more likely to cause accidental harm to you or your family than it is going to help you fight off hole invaders.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7769769/
You’d be better off investing in proper home security measures.
Best logical response I have seen.