• CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    18
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    3 months ago

    I don’t live in a 3rd world country, so I guess I just don’t understand the concept of needing to arm myself before leaving my house because I’m likely to need a deadly weapon while I go about my business.

      • Obi@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        ·
        3 months ago

        In these kinds of discussions you can assume the third world country jab was a reference to the US.

      • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        3 months ago

        As an aside: part of the definition of a First World Country includes being a “stable democracy”.

        If a poll was done of American citizens asking them “do you think fraud will play a part in the upcoming election?” I would be shocked if less than 80% said yes. That doesn’t sound like a stable democracy to me.

    • capital@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      12
      ·
      edit-2
      3 months ago

      What country do you live in? I’m curious which one has no theft or violent crime.

      • BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        ·
        edit-2
        3 months ago

        Not OP check out my username for an idea of where I live. Besides a bit of gang on gang action in our capital, violent crimes are extremely rare. It’s maybe once a year that police have to shoot at a person, and even then police officers will assess the situation and if possible not go for center mass.

        Note how I left out theft. That’s because you can’t directly use violence to protect property.

        • capital@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          3 months ago

          Note how I left out theft. That’s because you can’t directly use violence to protect property.

          I remember hearing this when I lived in the UK for a few years and I was blown away. What are you expected to do if being robbed? Let it happen?

            • capital@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              7
              ·
              3 months ago

              Yeah, not here.

              I’ve had shit stolen. The police “handled it” to an extent but we will never get back priceless family heirlooms given to us from my wife’s side of the family. Fuck thieves.

          • BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            3 months ago

            There is a solution, it’s called insurance. I know that you wouldn’t get your family heirlooms back, but neither would you being armed but not home.

            I know the other guy wouldn’t say it, so I’ll go ahead and do it: you sound like you’re out for revenge, but you don’t know on whom to exact it. I fear that you could end up shooting a porch pirate in the back while claiming self defense.

            • capital@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              3 months ago

              There is a solution, it’s called insurance. I know that you wouldn’t get your family heirlooms back

              Then it isn’t exactly a solution, is it? The jewelry probably only would appraise for <$1000 (probably far less). It’s not about the monetary cost.

              but neither would you being armed but not home.

              Yeah…? I don’t get this line of argument. This just in - guns only effective when there’s a human there to operate it. No shit…

              You’re simultaneously arguing that guns are overkill to solve theft and that guns don’t solve theft.

              I fear that you could end up shooting a porch pirate in the back while claiming self defense.

              The state I live in currently wouldn’t allow for me to use deadly force to protect property. But states I’ve lived in in the past sure would. As of now, I would have to be in fear of great bodily harm or death in order to employ deadly force and that’s the standard I will follow. Just keep in mind that many robberies involve a deadly weapon on the perpetrators side which is an immediate green light on my end.

          • T156@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            3 months ago

            You do what the police do, and provide a proportionate response.

            A gun is only to be used if you are in imminent danger of your life. A robbery is arguably not that, unless they’re trying to steal your organs or prostheses.

            There’s a reason your average supermarket security guard doesn’t immediately whip out the Mini-Nuke the moment they see a shoplifter.

            There’s also something to be said about the place you’re living in, where you’re to be terrified of stabbists and robberers the moment you step out-of-doors. Do you live in a hive of scum and villainy?

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            3 months ago

            Call the police. Are you in physical danger? If not why are you putting yourself in physical danger?

            • capital@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              3 months ago

              I don’t think I understand your question.

              What scenario are you imagining with these questions?

      • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        3 months ago

        There’s a difference between “violent crime exists” and “violent crime is so prevalent that regular citizens need to carry around an implement designed to kill people quickly while they go about their daily lives.”

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            3 months ago

            I have sympathy for someone who’s actually been a victim of violent crime, and it’s a shame therapy isn’t a more viable option. However, there’s a big difference between
            “I was a victim of violent crime and feel more comfortable having a means of protection on me” and
            “This might lead to robberies.”
            “That’s what guns are for.”

        • capital@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          3 months ago

          I’ve never been in a serious vehicle accident.

          Still wear my seat belt though.

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            6
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            3 months ago

            “Wearing a seatbelt is the same as walking around with a device that can near instantly kill people.” Is something said by someone living in a dystopia.

            • capital@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              3 months ago

              It was a preparedness analogy which seems to have gone over your head.

              Is something said by someone living in a dystopia.

              You’ve had a variation on this in just about every response. It’s getting very old. We get it, US bad.

              • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                3 months ago

                Was my statement wrong in any way?

                If it’s getting old stop trying to argue against it by saying the dystopian attitude is necessary.

                • capital@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  3 months ago

                  Was my statement wrong in any way?

                  Do you know how analogies work? Of course the two things I compared are different.

                  It’s like if I said “a fish swimming is like a bird flying” and you coming along and saying “omg swimming and flying are the same now???/”

                  I even spelled it out - it’s about preparedness.

                  • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    3 months ago

                    Was my statement wrong in any way?

                    Do you know how analogies work? Of course the two things I compared are different.

                    That doesn’t answer my question as to if my statement was incorrect.

                    You’ve made an analogy about preparedness and let the assumption hang that that makes both things equal.

                    Just like saying “a fish swimming is like a bird flying” isn’t an argument that a bird would be able to fly underwater, saying “I’ve never been in an accident and still wear a seatbelt” is not an argument for “always have a deadly weapon on you when you leave the house” not being evidence of a completely fucked up situation.

                  • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    3 months ago

                    The dystopian attitude is “you better be ready to severely harm someone at a moment’s notice every day, otherwise you’re just unprepared for day to day life.”