So umm, Iran’s leadership won’t stop nuclear weapons development. It can’t stop. Therefore to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons, it means that the US has to help remove Iran’s leadership. Now why would this turn out any better than any of the previous times they’ve done this, including in Iran?
They can absolutely stop; they just choose not to. And hamstringing their attempts to develop their nuclear program is a far better option than trying to topple their government in terms of maintaining stability in the region. Toppling the Iranian government would make every other Arab nation skittish and potentially be a rallying cry for them. Keeping their military options limited is far less incendiary.
Given what we’ve seen over the last little while, do you think Israel won’t be able and willing to topple the regime if they don’t have a lethal gun pointed towards Israel? There’s pressure from the outside, and from the inside on them. They have to keep terrorising to maintain the internal pressure. They have to be able to stop Israel from taking them out as a result of their terrorising. I don’t know if their current arsenal is a deterrent enough for that. If I were a supreme leader who wanted to stay in power, I’d be overturning mandatory prayer for the nuclear scientists and enginners working overtime to get to a test detonation (not over Israel) ASAP. As a supreme leader I feel like last year, perhaps even weeks ago, I did have the option to not make nukes. After the attacks in Lebanon that left my primary deterrent in an unknown state of degradation, I’m not feeling so lucky.
No one is forcing Iran’s dictators to remain dictators. They could become benevolent leaders or simply flee the nation. Israel gains relatively little from creating a power vacuum in Iran that will likely just be filled by another Israel-hating regime. They gain much more by destroying Ming the current regime’s ability to attack Israel.
Israel gains relatively little from creating a power vacuum in Iran that will likely just be filled by another Israel-hating regime.
Exactly.
They gain much more by destroying Ming the current regime’s ability to attack Israel.
Agreed. If this could be achieved without dragging the rest of us in an Iraq-like war. It might be possible but I don’t trust the current Israeli leadership to act in a way that achieves it. Especially given their PM said straight up he’s up to toppling the regime couple of days ago.
No one is forcing Iran’s dictators to remain dictators.
If that were possible, it would have likely happened already given how long this regime has stayed in power. It’s also very unlikely that it’s 5 guys in rags after so many decades, so even if they go crazy, the remainder would likely say fuck that and replace them. I think it’s much more useful to look at people as automatons whose actions are driven by the systems they exist in, than to consider them as free actors.
No, they stop developing nuclear weapons they get wiped out by an unwarranted US invasion. The only reason north Korea exists is because of their nuclear program, and their weapons of mass destruction before that. It’s the only way to actually prevent the US from invading you or putting a military base in you.
Your argument is refuted by the existence of plenty of other non-terrorist-supporting, non-dictatorship-led, non-oppressive, non-nuclear nations in the world that the U.S. isn’t fucking over in the manners you describe.
I think it was implicit in their statement that they’re talking about terrorist-supporting, dictatorship-led, oppressive, non-nuclear nations. You can even scratch terrorist-supporting and you still have plenty of tombstones to point to.
I’m currently living in a country that was freed from British colonialism via war. I’m damn happy that war happened, I’m damn happy we have our own country.
So umm, Iran’s leadership won’t stop nuclear weapons development. It can’t stop. Therefore to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons, it means that the US has to help remove Iran’s leadership. Now why would this turn out any better than any of the previous times they’ve done this, including in Iran?
Well, the Iranian youth would certainly love it if the current leadership were replaced with something a lot less hateful and a lot more secular.
They can absolutely stop; they just choose not to. And hamstringing their attempts to develop their nuclear program is a far better option than trying to topple their government in terms of maintaining stability in the region. Toppling the Iranian government would make every other Arab nation skittish and potentially be a rallying cry for them. Keeping their military options limited is far less incendiary.
Given what we’ve seen over the last little while, do you think Israel won’t be able and willing to topple the regime if they don’t have a lethal gun pointed towards Israel? There’s pressure from the outside, and from the inside on them. They have to keep terrorising to maintain the internal pressure. They have to be able to stop Israel from taking them out as a result of their terrorising. I don’t know if their current arsenal is a deterrent enough for that. If I were a supreme leader who wanted to stay in power, I’d be overturning mandatory prayer for the nuclear scientists and enginners working overtime to get to a test detonation (not over Israel) ASAP. As a supreme leader I feel like last year, perhaps even weeks ago, I did have the option to not make nukes. After the attacks in Lebanon that left my primary deterrent in an unknown state of degradation, I’m not feeling so lucky.
No one is forcing Iran’s dictators to remain dictators. They could become benevolent leaders or simply flee the nation. Israel gains relatively little from creating a power vacuum in Iran that will likely just be filled by another Israel-hating regime. They gain much more by destroying Ming the current regime’s ability to attack Israel.
Exactly.
Agreed. If this could be achieved without dragging the rest of us in an Iraq-like war. It might be possible but I don’t trust the current Israeli leadership to act in a way that achieves it. Especially given their PM said straight up he’s up to toppling the regime couple of days ago.
If that were possible, it would have likely happened already given how long this regime has stayed in power. It’s also very unlikely that it’s 5 guys in rags after so many decades, so even if they go crazy, the remainder would likely say fuck that and replace them. I think it’s much more useful to look at people as automatons whose actions are driven by the systems they exist in, than to consider them as free actors.
No, they stop developing nuclear weapons they get wiped out by an unwarranted US invasion. The only reason north Korea exists is because of their nuclear program, and their weapons of mass destruction before that. It’s the only way to actually prevent the US from invading you or putting a military base in you.
Your argument is refuted by the existence of plenty of other non-terrorist-supporting, non-dictatorship-led, non-oppressive, non-nuclear nations in the world that the U.S. isn’t fucking over in the manners you describe.
Name one.
Canada.
Spoken like someone who hasn’t been paying attention or actively supports genocide.
Huh, kinda like how Israel supported South Africa.
Apartheid nations gotta stick together, right?
I think it was implicit in their statement that they’re talking about terrorist-supporting, dictatorship-led, oppressive, non-nuclear nations. You can even scratch terrorist-supporting and you still have plenty of tombstones to point to.
Their ability to make nukes has been delayed several times in the past, another delaying action is likely better than letting them get nukes.
Incorrect, not waging war is better than spending another 20 trillion killing civilians.
It’s scary how even during 2 horrible wars, people still can’t accept the simple truth that war is always the worst possible option.
I’m currently living in a country that was freed from British colonialism via war. I’m damn happy that war happened, I’m damn happy we have our own country.
Sometimes the worst possible option is also the only possible option.
But disemboweling each other’s working class is never a good way to come to a common decision between countries.