I understand that reading these things, often full of judicial jargon, is something undesirable, but not doing so is the same as signing a loan in a bank, without reading the conditions, it can give many unpleasant surprises and consequences. The companies calculate with this and it does not cause them any problem to fill this with abusive and even illegal clauses.
But it is not a problem to use for this some of the good services that show the conditions in a summarized and understandable way, such as TOSDR.
On the other hand, it always amuses me when many say that this is why they use FOSS, because it allows them to read the script. In this, the first thing naturally comes to mind ‘how are they going to read a script of hundreds of thousands of lines, when not even reading the TOS and the PP, given that currently many FOSS also practice surveillance advertising, selling user data for create your income?’
This is also specified in their terms of use. Nobody reads this ‘Since FOSS is synonymous with privacy and security’, FALSE, it is not. They also carry APIs from FB, Google, MS, Amazon and others to profile and track the user. These APIs themselves are also FOSS, on GitHub, which is proprietary and owned by Microsoft.
The only security that the normal user has is to look at the conditions before signing a contract, both online and in real life.
I understand that reading these things, often full of judicial jargon, is something undesirable, but not doing so is the same as signing a loan in a bank, without reading the conditions, it can give many unpleasant surprises and consequences.
I agree. And similar to bank loans, TOS are often predatory and reliant on working class people not understanding what they’re getting into.
I think you’re blaming the victims of a very predatory practice. In fact, I’d venture to say that even you don’t 100% know what you’re getting into when you’ve read various TOSs. Given the fact that they’re often written by corporate lawyers with the intention of obscuring any nefarious intentions, I think you should try to understand the Sisyphean task you’re assigning working class people with very limited time and resources.
I am not a lawyer, and I certainly have trouble understanding some things in these documents. But at least it can give a clue, how the site treats your data, the main problem is that they use tracking practices to sell the data to third parties, this in most cases is quite clear.
The alternative to this would be to refer to the summaries of TOSDR and others to find out. Also Blacklight and Unfurl can expose it (Exodus Privacy for Android apps).
That is, there are possibilities to check this, without having to study law first, but of course you have to want to do it. In real life, you don’t sign a 40-year mortgage either, without first reading the conditions and, if you don’t understand them, consult someone who does.
You’re missing my point. Most working class people don’t have the time/resources to look into all of these alternatives. This is like telling someone who shops at Wal-Mart that if they looked harder, they could find a more ethical place to shop without realizing that the reason why they shop at Wal-Mart is because they can barely afford the time or gas to get there and back.
I think it’s not lack of time, but lack of interest or knowledge. If you need a new PC, you also don’t go to the corner store and buy the first one you see on the shelf without hesitation.
At a minimum, you inform yourself before which one best corresponds to your needs and expectations, as well as the price and conditions.
Well, with services and software it’s the same, but it’s not done, due to lack of time? I doubt it.
I don’t see it that way, we are all ignorant in one or another subject, it is not to be blamed, but a task for those who are aware of this problem to spread it, to warn of these practices that in real life would have already caused a revolution, for example when a postman opens and reads our mail, before delivering it to us, because this is exactly what Google does with Gmail users, or that advertising companies install cameras in your home and agents that follow us everywhere on the street, to spy on us and offer us products that correspond to our daily customs.
This is exactly what the practice of surveillance advertising means that they use to earn money and that in my opinion is a crime and a clear violation of the basic rights of the user.
Mentioning this and trying to spread it is of the utmost importance and has nothing to do with blaming the unwary who are not aware of the problem, it is shaming and denouncing the companies that use these practices.
To quote Jerry Seinfeld…
“Have you read that thing? It’s like the Declaration of Independence.”"
Point is,
a) most people don’t have the time to read the TOS;
b) most people don’t understand half of what a TOS even talks about; and
c) people have fewer and fewer alternatives to these companies because this sort of thing is becoming so common.
I understand that reading these things, often full of judicial jargon, is something undesirable, but not doing so is the same as signing a loan in a bank, without reading the conditions, it can give many unpleasant surprises and consequences. The companies calculate with this and it does not cause them any problem to fill this with abusive and even illegal clauses. But it is not a problem to use for this some of the good services that show the conditions in a summarized and understandable way, such as TOSDR. On the other hand, it always amuses me when many say that this is why they use FOSS, because it allows them to read the script. In this, the first thing naturally comes to mind ‘how are they going to read a script of hundreds of thousands of lines, when not even reading the TOS and the PP, given that currently many FOSS also practice surveillance advertising, selling user data for create your income?’ This is also specified in their terms of use. Nobody reads this ‘Since FOSS is synonymous with privacy and security’, FALSE, it is not. They also carry APIs from FB, Google, MS, Amazon and others to profile and track the user. These APIs themselves are also FOSS, on GitHub, which is proprietary and owned by Microsoft. The only security that the normal user has is to look at the conditions before signing a contract, both online and in real life.
I agree. And similar to bank loans, TOS are often predatory and reliant on working class people not understanding what they’re getting into.
I think you’re blaming the victims of a very predatory practice. In fact, I’d venture to say that even you don’t 100% know what you’re getting into when you’ve read various TOSs. Given the fact that they’re often written by corporate lawyers with the intention of obscuring any nefarious intentions, I think you should try to understand the Sisyphean task you’re assigning working class people with very limited time and resources.
I am not a lawyer, and I certainly have trouble understanding some things in these documents. But at least it can give a clue, how the site treats your data, the main problem is that they use tracking practices to sell the data to third parties, this in most cases is quite clear. The alternative to this would be to refer to the summaries of TOSDR and others to find out. Also Blacklight and Unfurl can expose it (Exodus Privacy for Android apps). That is, there are possibilities to check this, without having to study law first, but of course you have to want to do it. In real life, you don’t sign a 40-year mortgage either, without first reading the conditions and, if you don’t understand them, consult someone who does.
You’re missing my point. Most working class people don’t have the time/resources to look into all of these alternatives. This is like telling someone who shops at Wal-Mart that if they looked harder, they could find a more ethical place to shop without realizing that the reason why they shop at Wal-Mart is because they can barely afford the time or gas to get there and back.
I think it’s not lack of time, but lack of interest or knowledge. If you need a new PC, you also don’t go to the corner store and buy the first one you see on the shelf without hesitation. At a minimum, you inform yourself before which one best corresponds to your needs and expectations, as well as the price and conditions. Well, with services and software it’s the same, but it’s not done, due to lack of time? I doubt it.
You’re presumably a leftist and you don’t see how this is blaming victims?
I don’t see it that way, we are all ignorant in one or another subject, it is not to be blamed, but a task for those who are aware of this problem to spread it, to warn of these practices that in real life would have already caused a revolution, for example when a postman opens and reads our mail, before delivering it to us, because this is exactly what Google does with Gmail users, or that advertising companies install cameras in your home and agents that follow us everywhere on the street, to spy on us and offer us products that correspond to our daily customs. This is exactly what the practice of surveillance advertising means that they use to earn money and that in my opinion is a crime and a clear violation of the basic rights of the user. Mentioning this and trying to spread it is of the utmost importance and has nothing to do with blaming the unwary who are not aware of the problem, it is shaming and denouncing the companies that use these practices.