Yup. I currently am renting a house built in the 60s. Hasn’t been updated since the 70s, so not only is rent sky high, but so is our utility bill. My landlord doesn’t give a shit enough to upgrade the house. Why should he? He’s raking in the cash without having to spend a dime, and the fucking state I live in allows it to happen.
Used to live in a 110 year old house with paper thin wall, leaky roof, a basement that flooded at every drizzle, a shit claw tub"Shower" and the rent was stupid high for that crap box.
rent control and stop cooperate take over of housing, especially foreign companies.
Ok what is the catch? No way in heck economists are on our side.
Maybe they are noticing that if enough slaves die they are next to pick up the shovel.
Probably.
They want us to buy up property at inflated values (both price and interest rate) then default in a few years so they can buy them up in foreclosure auctions at a steep discount.
“The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
Economists want a perfect supply-demand capitalist dreamland. Demand drastically outstripping supply indicates something is wrong with The System^TM and that’s not acceptable, so they want to fix The System^TM .
It’s clear the demand is there, so it’s not a consumer problem. The supply is super-limited and being reduced every day. That’s a supply problem. The only options are incentives (don’t really work in this situation) or regulation (which economists hate but no other choice).
I assume most economists just don’t want to see what happens when that system reaches an absolute breaking point, so sign on for regulations it is.
I think all leases should be month-to-month. Making it easier to move would help renters shop around, move if their landlord is shit, move if their neighbors are shit, move if they get a new job, etc.
That would just cause rents to go up because landlords wouldn’t have the security of the contract. You want rents to be even higher than they are now?
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It’s also partially pricing in the risk of another eviction moratorium. It’s still recent enough in landlord’s that the government could take away their recourse for non-payment.
Why don’t we just move into vacant homes? Don’t pay rent or buy, just move in. There’s so many in my area that if I did get caught and kicked out of one I could just go down the street to the next.
If a space goes unrented long enough it should be repossessed from the landlord. The law should work both ways. Manifest destiny but for homes.
I happen to agree. I am sick of perfect fine forests being torn down for new construction while old buildings stay vacant. Often on the same block.
Then you get arrested for breaking and entering. We are really good at keeping people out of places not so good at putting them into places.
There are rules around this. Its called squatting.
No thanks to that, hustle more, spend less, invest smart and you can get a house easy!
Ok boomer. “Fuck you, got mine” am I right?
Pretty sure you forgot the /s
Remember, sarcasm doesn’t translate well on the internet.
How about we just TAKE your shit, fuck you?
Point is, you only have so long to live. Why do we all have to hustle, day in and day out? That’s not the point of existence, at least I refuse to believe so.
So you’re saying I need to pull myself up by my bootstraps?
More than 30 U.S. economists have signed a letter expressing support for strong federal tenant protections and rent control as housing costs remain sky-high, even amid broadly cooling inflation.
The economists note in their letter, released Thursday, that the median rent in the U.S. “has surpassed $2,000 for the first time, and there is not a single state where a worker earning a full-time minimum wage salary can afford a modest two-bedroom apartment.”
“We have seen corporate landlords—who own a larger share of the rental market than ever before—use inflation as an excuse to hike rents and reap excess profits beyond what should be considered fair and reasonable,” the letter continues. “Renters are struggling as a result.”
The letter’s signatories—including Mark Paul of Rutgers University, James K. Galbraith of the University of Texas at Austin, and Isabella Weber of the University of Massachusetts Amherst—call on the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA) to require rent regulations as a condition for federally-backed mortgages and reject the “economics 101 model that predicts rent regulations will have negative effects on the housing sector,” likening it to typical arguments against raising the minimum wage.
“Empirical research on local rent control policies in San Francisco, CA and New York, NY found that rent regulations lower housing costs for households living in regulated units,” the economists wrote. “In Cambridge, MA, empirical research showed that the repeal of rent stabilization laws resulted in an average rent increase of $131 for tenants.”
Given that “Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac mortgages on the secondary market support nearly half of rental units in the U.S.,” they argued, “Government Sponsored Entities (GSEs) have the influence needed to meaningfully change the trajectory of the housing crisis.”
The economists’ letter is part of a broader push by tenant rights groups and housing justice organizations to secure federal protections against egregious rent hikes and wrongful evictions.
Earlier this week, 17 U.S. senators wrote in a letter to the FHFA that “renters also have too few protections, making them vulnerable to steep rent increases and deteriorating housing conditions—factors that are out of their control.”
“Tenant protections vary drastically from state to state and even sometimes from county to county, often leaving renters without recourse,” the senators added. “There have been repeated reports of investors using low-cost financing from Enterprise-backed loans to buy properties and then sharply raising rents, mistreating tenants, and allowing buildings to fall into disrepair.”
More than 140 academics, over 70 climate researchers, and dozens of local elected officials have also joined the call for nationwide rent regulations.
Tara Raghuveer, director of the Homes Guarantee campaign at People’s Action, said in a statement Thursday that “tenants are coming for rent regulations, and everyone from senators to economists agree: tenant protections are common sense.”
“Due to lack of regulation, affordable housing is lost quicker than it can be built,” said Raghuveer. “Corporate landlords call the shots with federal financing through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That’s why tenants spent this summer organizing to win what we need: federal tenant protections like caps on annual rent increases.”
In late May, the FHFA issued a request for public input on tenant protections at multifamily properties with mortgages backed by GSEs.
Tenants with the Homes Guarantee campaign responded by knocking on more than 4,000 doors at GSE-backed properties and organizing more than 2,000 comments in support of tenant protections and rent regulations.
“The system as we know it today has failed everyday people, many of whom make impossible choices between rent and food, their homes or their medications,” said Raghuveer. “The status quo is not working for the people, it is only working for the profiteers, and it is time for change. It is time for the federal government to make changes to that system, to correct the imbalance of power between landlords and tenants, to protect tenants, and to stabilize the American economy.”
“We have seen corporate landlords—who own a larger share of the rental market than ever before—use inflation as an excuse to hike rents and reap excess profits beyond what should be considered fair and reasonable,” the letter continues. “Renters are struggling as a result.”
Literal rent-seeking.
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That’s not really reflective of the market in reality. Rent in a competitive market (I.E. anywhere people want to live) tends to hover around the cost to own, buying with 20% down, plus property tax and mandatory homeowners insurance required by the mortgage holder.
In fact, usually it’s cheaper to rent than it is to buy with only 20% down and good credit.
This is because people do this calculation, come to the conclusion “it will cost us a little more, but we get to own our dwelling, our payments eventually go to principal (though this is rigged by the banks too), and hopefully the market goes up and we get equity”
Yes, the market fluctuates, particularly in economic crisis. But it teeters back and forth based on the costs to buy and rent. Because if rent exceeds the cost to buy, investors snap up property just to rent it out, and that raises demand on real estate to the cost goes up.
The rates going up as fast as they have when prices are still high have killed buying as an alternative to renting in my city.
I feel for people who weren’t “smart enough” to buy during the pandemic, because unless prices, rates, or both drop dramatically, it looks like they may have been permanently priced out of buying and renting is only getting less affordable.
I agree. It sucks all around right now for anyone on the market to rent or buy. We’re all squeezed. Only people that had the luxury of owning and/or capital and foresight to invest are happy right now.
The wealth divide has only increased substantially.
But that doesn’t mean that rent is “predatory” except in the cases of long time owners hiking rates when their costs have stayed the same. The reality is that rent is closely related to the current cost of buying at any given time.
But that doesn’t mean that rent is “predatory” except in the cases of long time owners hiking rates when their costs have stayed the same. The reality is that rent is closely related to the current cost of buying at any given time.
Not all landlords are predatory maybe, but at least in this city the overwhelming majority of them are. They’re also like a half dozen corporations that hold most of the apartment buildings. They raise their rates dramatically like clockwork even though I’m in California and we have Prop 13 which holds their tax raises to very low percentage increases yearly.
I would say that for the most part, yes, it has a relationship to what it would cost to buy the same property…but it’s location dependent. You can’t (for the most part) buy an apartment here. It’s almost certainly the case (I’m only not 100% sure because a lot of the apartment complex holding companies are private) that they have low rate mortgages or no mortgages at all on the buildings, and they charge more and more as time goes forward despite their costs not really increasing.
We’re entering a neo-feudalistic economy and while yes, again, there’s some relation to the cost…a lot of it is just straight up greed.
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It made you more rich on paper, but the reality is that you aren’t in the same boat as landlords. The reason is that if you live in your property in order to realize the profit on it you’ll have to sell it and move somewhere less expensive (i.e. somewhere likely less desirable).
Prices in real estate going up only really benefits real estate tycoons, the local government (depending upon location), and other side players in the market (e.g. real estate agents). For the rest of us, if you sell it just means that you have to turn around and buy in a more expensive market. Also (depending upon location, California properties aren’t completely re-assessed for taxes until they change hands) it hikes your taxes.
As a single property owner in California, I’m rooting for prices to drop so I can upgrade and still pay the same amount of taxes (or less).
I wouldn’t bet on it happening though.
Your use case reflects what I said exactly.
For someone to buy your condo today, they will be signing up for a mortgage whose monthly cost is near the going rent price. And most likely, more than the going rent price.
If they were to just buy and rent it out, they will likely be doing so at a loss.
The market going up or down after the purchase of the property is independent. It may go up, it may go down. That’s the gamble you make if you’re doing it as an investment.
Your experience happened to take place at an extraordinarily good time to already own property., and FOMO was certainly fueling the frenzy during the peak.
Whether that continues to be the case is unknown. Economists are all over the map.
Rent is inherently predatory
No it’s not. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s inherently predatory.
I have to move to a city for 6 months, should I have to buy a house and sell it during that time? I need to rent, it gives me the flexibility without having to shell out capital or get in debt to live.
As with everything, it can be bad, especially when the government restricts building of houses so much, but my buddy buying a house, fixing it up and renting it out isn’t malicious.
What’s your alternative to renting? Government owns all houses and gives them out for people to live in for free?
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Having social housing or low-cost rental housing owned by the government with an option to purchase does not sound at all bad.
We have social housing for low income people, is that not enough? Do we just need more? How much more?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidized_housing_in_the_United_States
Have you heard of the term the ‘projects’ - it’s provided housing, but many of the subsidized housing areas are more like a 3rd world country than our prosperous 1st world country. Is this the policy you’d like more of?
I would rather pay the cost of service to the government than my landlord’s mortgage
Just curious, why? What difference would it make for you? Many of these mortgages are government funded anyway. I don’t rent anymore but my government is far more inept and corrupt than any landlord I’ve ever dealt with. Just my experience though.
What difference would it make for you?
Well, paying an at-cost price would mean it is inherently cheaper as the government wouldn’t be trying to turn a profit, merely charge an amount that compensates for upkeep.
Many of these mortgages are government funded anyway.
But is still building equity for a private individual.
my government is far more inept and corrupt than any landlord I’ve ever dealt with
I have a say in my government though, at least theoretically. I think housing (at least primary housing) shouldn’t be a for-profit industry, so I advocate against it via my government.
the government wouldn’t be trying to turn a profit
lol.
But is still building equity for a private individual.
With risk attached, yes.
I think housing (at least primary housing) shouldn’t be a for-profit industry
Agreed. Nor should food, water, electricity, health services, etc. but here we are.
I would rather pay the cost of service to the government than my landlord’s mortgage
So you want housing as government controlled? How much? 100%? 80%? 50%? How much private residential property should be stolen by the government to achieve what you want.
How much private residential property should be stolen by the government to achieve what you want.
wow is that the best strawman you could come up with? Public housing shouldn’t exist because *checks notes* it is literally impossible to achieve without stealing existing homes? That’s how you’re gonna present your initial argument? Be better sporto
My biggest head scratcher now that I’ve bought a house is “huh, my mortgage is locked in now, no matter what the market does… Why did rent keep going up if my landlord’s mortgages were locked in?”
I honestly don’t have a good answer, I could be looking at something perfectly explainable. But to me it seemed like they raised rent not because costs went up, but because they could. Why not. Everybody else is doing it.
My biggest head scratcher now that I’ve bought a house is “huh, my mortgage is locked in now, no matter what the market does… Why did rent keep going up if my landlord’s mortgages were locked in?”
Property taxes, market rate, costs to repair and maintain, interest rates increasing. How much money, beyond your mortgage, have you spend on your house since you moved in?
Less than my apartment ever was 😜
And what’s especially nice is everything I buy and repair goes to me, belongs to me.
Sure I had to buy a washer and dryer, lawn mower, more furniture, etc, but that’s all mine forever.
The only cost that’s higher at my house than my much smaller apartment is utilities.
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A few hundred a month less. I’m not suddenly drowning in money, obviously, but it’s interesting paying less for much more, and that money actually benefitting my net worth vs being flushed down the toilet
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Mortgages are locked in. Taxes, insurance, utilities, maintenance/upkeep are not. All of those things have increased since I bought my house a year ago. Rental properties experience the same thing.
My landlord’s taxes went down, I pay for utilities, not sure about insurance, as for upkeep I will let you know when I see that happening.
Property taxes went down? I doubt that. As far as upkeep, if the furnace goes out, who pays for that? The property owner. That’s what I meant.
We got federal money for Covid and the commerical sector is doing well. Pretty sure the furnace is fine, but it isn’t like I have lived here for multiple years.
Don’t allow companies to own residential properties… it’s that simple…
Who’s going to make apartment buildings? Isn’t that the best solution towards making more housing, to have compact apartment structures? How do you think those get built?
You could make every one an HOA and have it be condos.
Honestly I don’t think outright prohibition of companies owning buildings is good, but there needs to be a better mix of ownable housing units to rentable ones. There also needs to be better anti-trust enforcement so that three companies don’t own and price control nearly all of the housing in a city (I think there’s maybe six companies in my city that own almost all of the apartment complexes).
They should mandate that a certain subsection of newly zoned housing be owned by people instead of corporations. It would be a much better, much more competitive market for housing if it were possible to own apartments because you could get small time landlords in those buildings as well as people that own their places outright.
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It is property…for residents…
I supposed we can both find sources to say whether it’s commercial or residential. https://www.google.com/search?channel=fen&client=firefox-b-1-d&q=are+apartment+buildings+residential+real+estate
I guess my question is, what’s the point in arguing about this? Are you saying the only housing corporations should own are apartment buildings, the biggest most efficient source of housing for individuals in large cities?
My bad I thought residential prop meant single family homes.
But I didn’t say anything about who should own apparements. My only point was when people refer to residential property that refers typically to single family homes and is likely what op is referring to as well.
It’s literally the most residential of all possible properties, what are you talking about?
Already apologized, look farther down.
That is a bad idea as owning a house isn’t right for everyone.
The idea being proposed here doesn’t outlaw renting, only corporate ownership of residential property. It means that the people you’re renting from are human beings who will eventually die and either be estate taxed or the house will be sold, rather than a corporation who owns your property until they go bankrupt or until the sun explodes.
So corps pay higher taxes on property vs sole owners?
Bingo. A lot of current problems get better by:
A) 100% death tax on all money over 100,000,000.00 at time of death.
B) Closing loopholes that allow hiding that kind of money in unnecessary corporate assets or non-charitable trusts.
C) Cracking down on what qualifies as a charitable trust. Want to leave that money to trust that makes the world better, better have numbers to prove it or it gets disolved automatically into other more effective charities.
D) Automatically splitting every corpportation the moment it crosses a reasonable value threshold.
While that may be, companies should not be able to have a stronghold on what should be considered a basic human need. Housing is already in pretty short supply, and it’s worsened by the fact that these companies buy a considerable chunk of this short supply and then turn the purchased properties into rentals.
“buying one home and turning it into 4 home reduces the amount of homes” and other fun takes.
“Buying a house and renting it out to families that were wanting to buy it outright in the first place” FTFY
Oh I’m sorry, do 4 families generally get together and purchase a house as a collective?
People buy parts of buildings all the time. They’re called condos and multiplexes.
“Buying one home and charging 4x as much for it” is the actual problem, but I suppose you have your head in the sand by default when the large boot of capitalism is on your neck.
Strong disagree. People having homes where they otherwise would not is a feature, not a bug.
If you want prices down, you must increase supply
Fuck you you shouldn’t own a goddamn thing with that mentality.
You bootlickers are the reason shit is bad and was always bad.
Solid intelligence response there
Parse their response, instead of just the tone. That person’s mad and sad both at how tough living has become.
We’ve all had that one lazy piece of shit roomate that never cleans up after himself and I bet it’s him.
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Lol no one gets forced to buy one just because prices become realistic, wth
And non US citizens.
Non-residents, not non-citizens.
As a US citizen living in another country and trying to buy a house, you want me to have to change my citizenship to do this? 0.o I’ve lived in Japan for the better part of a decade and am trying to buy a property where, hopefully, my wife and I can live for the rest of our lives. Having to become a citizen in Japan (which does not allow other citizenships except in some very specific cases) is a non-starter for me. I need to be able to freely enter and leave the US in case my family have any issues. Why should I be fucked like this?
They probably mean non-residents instead of non-citizens. Would make more sense that way at least.
And you could make that non-local residents and it would still work out well. Stop letting foreign and domestic “investors” buy up all the housing in cities they don’t live in.
Yeah, that would be reasonable.
I mean, housing issues and challenges in Japan are likely different than in the US.
If Japanese law required you to be a Japanese citizen in order to buy a home, then yeah, I’d expect you to become a citizen to get a home.
I just happen to live in Japan, but you can reverse the countries in my example if it helps. If I were a Japanese citizen living in the US almost 10 years and wanting to just buy a home for my family, I think it’s unreasonable to have to give up Japanese citizenship just to get a house in the US. Using my example, I would not give up JP citizenship because I have aging family I need to have unlimited access to in Japan.
I’ll be honest, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to need to go through some form of certification to purchase residential housing.
To use US terms, as those are what I’m familiar with, a greencard would be sufficient, since it would allow you to legally live and work in the country.
I would say “valid status of residence/visa” (greencard/permanent residence can be super long processes of over a decade), but yeah that makes sense to me.
Just a visa would be too low of a bar, imo. Show you’re a permanent resident and planning to stay here.
That simply results in shitloads of homeless people
Good thing our current system doesn’t.
Good thing our current system doesn’t.
By comparison it does not
2015 - rent was $1200
2017 - rent was $1600.
2021 - rent was $2100 average. I was paying $2400.
2023 - rent was $2500 average. I’m paying nearly $3000.
These are all two bedroom, two bathroom apartments in the same city.
I’ve asked college age tenants who lived here how they can do it. They split it with roommates (2bd/2bath - like four ppl living there)
Your city badly needs zoning reform, not to exacerbate this problem with rent control (further stifling new building)
That’s crazy. I’m in a decent sized city and the average rent for a 2/2 is ~$1800. Hell my mortgage is less than $3k/month.
My PITI for my mortgage is $3350/month. Mortgage is $28xx something. It’ll be nice whenever I can get that mortgage insurance off. I was renting an admittedly very nice 2 bed 2 bath apartment for the same before I bought. Now I have a 3x2 1000sqft rambler and know that, while the mortgage is high, it will be lower than rent in the next 5 years.
that many people in the house has to be breaking fire code…
My city has been even more dramatic.
2016 - $680
2022 - $2200
Over 300% increase in six years.
My understanding is that rent control backfired pretty spectacularly in the long term.
The better plan here would be to stop companies from buying residential properties, to incentivized the conversion of commercial properties into apartments, to penalize banks and individuals who are sitting on unused residential properties.
Oh, and wipe out all student loan debt so that younger generations have a prayer of buying a house someday.
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My understanding is that rent control backfired pretty spectacularly in the long term.
There are critiques against rent control that have persisted for decades that are now seeing a growing body of counter-evidence that it maybe isn’t that bad after all. Hence the resurgence of rent control being suggested as a policy tool. It makes sense that the myth that rent control is bad has persisted for so long - high earning economists (yes, they’re very high earners) who are thus more likely to own rental units have an incentive to publish research showing that policies that harm their rental income are bad, and have less incentive to publish research that shows policies like these benefit the renter over the landlord.
Here’s a great article by J. W. Mason, who has a PhD in economics, who goes over more recent research around rent control. He shows that it’s far more nuanced and less clearly “bad” than right wing economists have been trying to push us to believe.
https://jwmason.org/slackwire/considerations-on-rent-control/
This better matches my understanding than OP’s take. It’s not necessarily that certain folks were being disingenuous (though of course with financial matters that’s also common), but more so that rent control is designed to help people closer to the bottom of the financial ladder, and those people are also disenfranchised in other ways, including their results bring unreported or thrown under the rug.
The difference now is that the housing system is so screwed and skewed overall, rent control would likely benefit far more folks than those at the absolute bottom of the financial ladder – that, or the wealth gap is just so large that there’s a huge number of people at the bottom, all roughly equivalent to each other given how rich the rich have become.
test
Who told you rent control backfired? Cause that’s a lie. It was just never adopted as widely as it should have been, and rich owners always have the ear of lawmakers … the same can’t be said of poor/working poor people.
The author of that article is Megan McArdle. A quick look at her other articles:
- An article that attempts to shift blame away from media execs and onto consumers, in response to the writers/actors’ protests
- “Higher minimum wages may increase homelessness” (literal article title)
- Says we shouldn’t expect to keep taxing wealthy people
- Wants to reduce medicaid but conveniently doesn’t mention the amount of death poor people will experience as a result of that, using the same austerity justifications we’ve heard in Europe already (that turned out to be bullshit)
I’m sure she has no right wing economics bias lol
Capitalist/free market* economists.
Rent control works just fine in a more socialist model, especially when the government is a prime builder of housing without seeking profit, as almost every European country was during the 50s-70s. It’s only when government gets out of house building and everything gets privatisated and for-profit that rent control fails.
You may want to look at how rent control turned out there, and why Europe is broadly turning against rent control, and seeing it as a mistake https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-03-02/berlin-s-rent-controls-are-proving-to-be-the-disaster-we-feared?in_source=embedded-checkout-banner
I unfortunately can’t read that article as it’s paywalled, but looking at the link, it’s an Opinion piece, so not factual reporting. It’s also from Bloomberg, one of the most pro-capitalist publications out there, second only to The Economist in its championing of all things pro globalist and pro capitalist.
The main stream media which is all very pro capitalist (as they’re all owned by billionaire oligarchs) has been shitting on rent control for decades.
Here’s a more nuanced article on the matter which doesn’t come from such a pro-capitalist, classical economic outlook: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/23/berlin-rent-cap-defeated-landlords-empty
That article is literally about how rent shot up because of rent control policies.
Also it is an opinion article and written as if rent control is a good thing.
Rent didn’t shoot up, how could it, the whole point of the law was it was frozen.
I think you’re missing the forest for the trees in this entire conversation: rent has been skyrocketing everywhere, in every G8 country, for the last 20 years. Especially in places like London, NYC, LA, Seattle, Paris, Toronto, Bay Area, etc. Hell, even in Salt Lake City where I used to live my rent went from £1816/mon to £2600/mon for the same flat, in just 2 years. And none of those cities have classic rent control (NYC has a few places which have it, but overall it doesn’t). So clearly with a free market, pure capitalist approach, rents have only been skyrocketing. Same thing for housing to buy, have you tried buying a house lately?
So to claim that rent control or rent freezes lead to higher rentals or less supply is wrong, because rents are going up in a free market too, and supply is already at an all time low (hence the prices shooting up).
So you’re fucked in either situation. The real problem is there just isn’t enough supply of shelter for people, and that’s because if you leave it to the free market, there’s no incentive to build affordable housing with no profit. Hence, because shelter is something required by citizens, government should be building it even at a huge loss. Just like government provides fire brigade and military at a financial loss, because people need these things. You don’t leave essential services to the private market because it may not be profitable to do them, for example, rural communities have shite internet, why? because it’s not profitable to dig and lay fibre optic cable into some rural hinterland for just a few hundred customers. So in Norway, the government steps in lays that fiber optic at a financial loss because it wants its citizens to have a better life. Same for housing. If the private sector isn’t doing it, the government should be. Just like in the 60s.
Can you name some countries/policies where it’s a continuing success?
Depends on your definition of “success.” Countries such as Holland, France, Canada, Germany, and China all have caps on the amount by which a landlord can increase rent in any given year, usually by law it’s less than 5%, or indexed to inflation (but with 5% as the max). These laws are incredibly popular with renters and have been around for decades.
Berlin implemented a hard rent freeze in 2020 which was extremely popular with renters, but not with landlords, naturally.
However, rent control isn’t just a hard price cap like back during the war, there are many nuanced aspects, see here for information: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/23/berlin-rent-cap-defeated-landlords-empty
Don’t know if you’ve noticed this yet, but the United States has a capitalist economy.
And it’s failing
Semi. It’s got bits and pieces of all systems, which is a hint that the “-ism” powering any country’s economy doesn’t have as big an impact as its leaders.
Unfortunately, capitalism tends to reward corruption, it’s much easier and profitable to be corrupt than to do the right thing™.
Libraries are socialist. Otherwise every person in a fully capitalist system would be expected to buy their personal copy of a book.
Libraries are not socialist. Socialism is not, in fact, when the government does things.
Thank you, boring and incorrect pedant.
It truly depends on the definition of socialism. Is it socialist anytime a service is provided by the govt? Or solely when public policy limits the abilities of capital?
You and I disagree, and that’s ok cuz I don’t care.
What you’re referring to is called a “mixed economy” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_economy
And you’re right - there are scales with capitalism and socialism weighing against each other in basically every economy. Finland, Norway, France are examples where it’s tipped a bit more in favour of the “socialism” side. But the US has plenty of elements of socialism, from housing coops in the Bronx, to utility coops in the midwest (that helped pave the way for the electrification of rural America), to credit unions, to welfare policies, to the Alaska social wealth fund, and I could keep going.
Finland and Norway have among the highest percentage of private investment in the world, to the extent that investment is the leading economic driver in Nordic countries.
They are not socialist countries.
The US has lots of socialized losses but privatized profits. To call it a capitalist economy is a gross oversimplification which glosses over the fact that no corporation is actually competing in a free market at this point.
Putting all your faith in economists whose sole purpose is to back the current capitalist shitshow that rapes the land and kills the poor is a strange take.
But you do you I guess.
I’m not really worried about commercial landlords. Most of them are okay. A few are great, a few are slumlords.
What I’d really like to see is more and denser housing being built, period. And investment in infrastructure like public transit so that places are more accessible, more livable.
My understanding is that rent control backfired pretty spectacularly in the long term.
Yeah, the basic problem with rent control is that it creates the opposite long-term incentive from what you want.
Rentable housing is like any other good – it costs more when the supply is constrained relative to demand, costs less when supply is abundant relative to demand.
If rent is high, what you want is to see more housing built.
What rent control does is to cut the return on rents, which makes it less desirable to buy property to rent, which makes it less desirable to build property, which constrains the supply of housing, which exacerbates the original problem of not having as much housing as one would want in the market.
I would not advocate for it myself, but if someone is a big fan of subsidizing housing the poor, what they realistically want is to subsidize housing for the poor out of taxes or something. They don’t want to disincentivize purchase of housing for rent, which is what rent control does.
Part of the problem with rent control is that it doesn’t subsidize the building of new housing. The times in which housing prices dropped in the USA were typically when a government either opened up land to development, subsidized the building of housing, or built the housing themselves.
If you subsidize housing you create increased demand for housing, ultimately leading to rent going up for all.
Zoning reform is the solution. Cities are no place for single-family exclusionary zoning and height limits on housing
If you subsidize housing you create increased demand for housing, ultimately leading to rent going up for all.
So, as I said, I’m not an advocate of subsidizing housing out of taxes. I’m just saying that people who are arguing for rent control are arguing for a policy that tends to exacerbate the problem in the long run.
Subsidizing housing doesn’t normally run into that, because it’s normally possible to build more housing.
It is true that that’s not always the case, and one very real way in which that can not be the case is where there have been restrictions placed on constructing more housing. If housing prices are high, the first thing I would look at is “why can’t developers build more housing, and are there regulatory restrictions preventing them from doing so”. It is quite common to place height restrictions on new constructions, which prevents developers from building property to meet that demand, which drives up housing prices (and rents). In London, there are restrictions placed that disallow building upwards such that a building would be in line-of-sight between several landmarks. That restricts construction in London and makes housing prices artificially rise. Getting planning permission may also be a bottleneck. I agree with you that that sort of thing is the thing that I would tend to look at first as well: removing restrictions on housing construction is the preferable way to solve a housing problem.
I remember an article from Edward Glaeser some time back talking about how much restrictions on construction – he particularly objected to the expanding number of protected older, short buildings – have led to cost of housing going up.
How Skyscrapers Can Save the City
Besides making cities more affordable and architecturally interesting, tall buildings are greener than sprawl, and they foster social capital and creativity. Yet some urban planners and preservationists seem to have a misplaced fear of heights that yields damaging restrictions on how tall a building can be. From New York to Paris to Mumbai, there’s a powerful case for building up, not out.
By Edward Glaeser
It looks like it’s paywalled, so here:
Ah if you meant subsidizing housing construction I’m 100% with you
Where’s all this housing being built as a result of sky-high rents? If they are being built, they’re being snatched up immediately by “investor” parasites.
What are you referring to? I don’t see all this new housing being built. I only know about three active sites in my city. I also know that our local zoning board has been rejecting applications because of neighborhood character.
I would run to serve but it’s an appointed position. Which yeah not great.
I also know that our local zoning board has been rejecting applications because of neighborhood character.
Sounds like you already know what one of the biggest issues is.
It’s so bad in California that the state legislature has been passing laws directly addressing city zoning boards that won’t approve housing.
New construction is happening. Just not as fast as we need it. And the cost of materials isn’t helping.
There’s also an underlying layer to this problem with a specific type of home owner: the foreign investor. These individuals use American properties to hide their wealth from their home countries. Tax evasion, high ROI, and increased scarcity in every purchase. Homes often go months and years without occupancy, sometimes with minimal furnishings so as not to appear vacant.
I’m not saying foreigners shouldn’t buy homes in America. However, if they do buy a home they should be required to occupy each individual property for a minimum of 6-9 months every year. Otherwise, a heavy tax that exceeds the property’s/ies annual appreciation to encourage occupancy or selling would be ideal.
Which sounds nice, but how do we prove they are or are not actually living there?
Utility usage? Pull up the last 6 months of, like, water use (since you need to have water so it’s a solid metric).
I mean, if they lie about their primary residency, that’s a whole set of legal problems they’ve got themselves in
Technically true but want to guess how many realtors buy a house , homestead the place for a couple of years then sell it?
Hint: the number is a lot higher then people might think.
There are a lot of ways to get around problems just by thinking outside of the box. Might it slow down the problem? Maybe.
So they’re buying a new house every few years and selling the old one? If they have only one house at a time, I don’t really care much. The issue is when billion dollar corporations buy up single family homes to rent out, not an individual buying a house to live in and sell it in a few years
Even if they lie requiring X months would at least put a cap on how many they could own since there are only 12 months in the year.
Iirc primary residency is already living in a single home more than 6 months out of a year, or where you lived the majority of the time
True I guess I was reading more into the original comment on taxing more than appreciation and such. I know there are tax benefits to primary residence already, which maybe covers their original idea, but I figured it would be even higher taxes for foreigners for non-primary residence or something was what they were suggesting.
Georgia had this problem decades ago and fixed it by lowering adverse possession requirements down to 13 months of occupation. It’s back to over a decade now but I liked that approach.
Time to organize
Either they fix the rents or we start eating the landlords. Either fucking way we are gonna eat.
Word. What’s the saying, “a revolution is only 3 missed meals away”?
I love that phrase because it’s so true.
I heard landlord tastes like pork. Long pig…
It’s not landlords faults that governments have insane restrictions on building houses. Why the hate towards them?
Why’s my rent gotta go up every year, in spite of no actual improvements to my home or the facilities? Why is there a convenience fee for paying my rent online?
They continue to take advantage of demand beyond what’s considered fair, whether the demand is due to govt policy or not. That’s why landlords get so much hate.
Why’s my rent gotta go up every year, in spite of no actual improvements to my home or the facilities?
Interest rates increasing, property taxes increasing, market rate going up, materials to provide improvements and maintenance increasing, inflation.
Not itemized, made clear to tenants, or asked for. Lack of transparency hurts all those valid points, and we’ve all, all, had bad landlords at some point.
Only quality legislation has protected me the few times I’ve had to tangle, anecdotally.
Not itemized, made clear to tenants, or asked for. Lack of transparency hurts all those valid points,
Why does that matter? Is your local grocery store transparent about the cost of chicken? No, because nobody is forcing you to pay for it. You pay for a service at an agreed upon price, if you don’t want it don’t buy it.
all, had bad landlords at some point.
I personally haven’t, the worse landlords I’ve had were at an upscale apartment complex that got mad because I hung an American flag. Once again, it’s up to you if you want to pay for the service provided by said landlord. Just like if you pay a plumber and they’re mean to you, you probably won’t go to them next time.
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread
Property taxes went down where I live thanks to federal covid money.
How did federal covid money cause property taxes to go down?
We got a bunch of money and decided to spend it that way. A small reduction on taxes for a while
I agree zoning sucks but so does my landlord. He inherited 17 houses and has never worked, every time I ask for something to be fixed he hires someone else out to do it, at one point he was saving up all my checks so I had to switch to money orders, he tried hitting on my wife, and he talks to me like I am not his fucking customer who pays for his mother fucking stable.
So fuck him and everyone like him. Inherited everything while the rest of us have to work.
He inherited 17 houses and has never worked
Why is that relevant?
every time I ask for something to be fixed he hires someone else out to do it
So he sucks because he gets a professional to help fix problems you have? That’s what a landlord is supposed to do…
at one point he was saving up all my checks so I had to switch to money orders
You still paid rent with checks?
everyone like him
I agree, he sounds sleezy, but just because you have a bad landlord doesn’t make all landlords bad.
Inherited everything while the rest of us have to work.
See, this is somewhere you and I differ completely. You hate someone because they have something you don’t, I put 0 weight on it. Why should I hate someone for getting a gift from a relative or friend? Why should I hate someone because they’re blessed differently than I?
If you don’t see any issue with someone being a sleezy piece of shit who inherited more wealth than the average person makes in a lifetime I am not sure what to tell you. Except to remind you that: The corporate overloads are going to sell you down the river the moment you are no longer useful to them.
If you don’t see any issue with someone being a sleezy piece of shit who inherited more wealth than the average person makes in a lifetime I am not sure what to tell you.
Well you’ve already shown your bias against anyone who has inherited anything.
The corporate overloads are going to sell you down the river the moment you are no longer useful to them.
Okay? How am i useful to them at all? What’s that have to do with not hating an individual because he got a gift from a relative?
All I can say is the absolutely shit apt I lived in in South Florida, wasn’t maintained, gross and expensive for 2300 a month wanted to raise our rent to almost 2400 a month for an apt that should cost 1600(being generous).
Fuck corporate landlords
My complex just got bought out by an investment company. 24% rent increase after years of <5% increases
This is going to be 50% of my after-tax income. They own half of me
Just move, we did it and found a local landlord, bigger apt newer better maintained and it is 25 bux a month cheaper.
I did look into that, my entire area is insanely expensive to rent in. With moving costs and deposits I’d be spending more in a year by moving.
I am looking into moving states but wouldn’t have time to get a new job. Going to have to bite the bullet and start planning for next year. Working on IT certs to get better paying jobs.
