Democrats aren’t attacking Jill Stein because they think she is taking votes from Kamala Harris. No one I know who’s voting Green would consider a vote for Harris at this point. They’re attacking Jill Stein because they don’t want voters to know that there can be a worker-centered party to the left of the Democrats that supports popular policies like Medicare for All, a $25 wage and federally guaranteed housing.
There are 80+ million eligible voters who don’t vote at all because they don’t see the point. Democrats are okay with this, in fact, they don’t want any candidate to their left to appeal to those voters with popular policies.
The fact that the Green Party exists shows that the Democrats aren’t pushing the most progressive policies. Jill Stein’s candidacy shows that it’s possible to support reproductive justice AND be against funding and arming a genocide. That we can end homelessness if we stopped funding endless wars around the globe.
Democrats don’t want anyone to the left of them to exist because it’s the only way they can convince Americans that Dem policies are “the best that we can do”. To Dems, anything else is just “asking for a pony”.
Don’t fall for it. Despite Dem’s desire to have you think otherwise, things don’t have to be this way.
Another world is possible.
I feel like the real reason Democrats would be attacking her would be due to her happily accepting donations from Republican led sponsors, aiming to actively sway Democratic voters instead of specifically both, and the distance that she has from actual election given that she’s not on the ballot in a number of states and is posing herself as the anti-war candidate despite saying that Russia invaded Ukraine because they needed to defend themselves from nukes. Odd how it’s okay to be apologetic to Russia but not Israel. You must understand - as a third party they can claim to have a plan for world peace, but what members in Congress will sponsor those bills? Even if Jill Stein did become President, who is approving her policies?
All that aside – she does very little in between election years. The Green Party as a whole has accomplished less of its supposed goals while having far more funding than the SRA. I would also expect that the leader of the Green Party practice what she preaches, as her and her husband have stock in just as many oil companies as the Democrats do. So quite honestly, it’s hard to see her as anyone but a faux candidate who shows up to take money from Green Party voters, preventing actual change from happening with that money because it’s going into a candidacy that will go nowhere.
If she cared, she would campaign for her donations to be given to something that would actually have meaningful effects, and she would push for more local candidates to run. The sad fact of the matter is that the Green Party has candidates who start out Green then move to a different party and are completely happy taking donations from Big Oil just like Kyrsten Sinema.
To call the Democrats a joke party when the tactics of the Green Party have been laughable is just one reason why they aren’t taken seriously. Another would be this quote:
there are more open socialists in just the New York state legislature right now (8, all caucusing together, will be 9 next year) than have been elected total above the local level for the Green Party (5). even accounting for party switching, this expands to just 9 people in history.
We can also just look at the Public Office Holders for the Socialists and the Green Party.
In short – The Green Party is the vote of choice because there is a Presidential candidate, but they offer nothing else through the four years. People are asking where the Democrats have been for them, what about the Green Party? Why are they all too happy to take money from you but do nothing in between for local activism? People are saying that the Democrats only provide lip service when they say things like supporting a two state solution, but lip service from the Green Party is totally fine? The Socialists or the DSA seem to at least aim for actionable goals, but is there no support for them because there’s no Presidential candidate? We’ve also seen that they (Socialists) actually have a chance of being elected if they run on a democratic platform and push bills that we can be proud of, something that historically cannot be said for members of the Green Party.
I hope this provides some insight on why people, not just Democrats, don’t feel like the Green Party is a worthwhile option.
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The only tool here is you bud.
Am I reading the article right? My understanding of what I just read is that in 2016 some social media accounts with ties to Russia put out some pro-Stein statements and then a year or two later Stein was photographed sitting at the same table as Putin.
Neither of those two facts suggest to me that she is, as you put it, “another Russian tool”. Especially since the article itself says that there’s no evidence she knew about the Russian social media accounts boosting her and there wasn’t an interpreter sitting at the table with her and Putin.
Can you please tell me what I’ve missed? Is there more evidence that she’s a “Russian tool”? Because the evidence in the article you linked seems extremely weak.
You don’t have the moral high ground you think you have. You can’t scare me with Russia when the US and many Western countries are guilty of enabling a genocide.
Here’s what the Financial Times wrote a year ago:
“We have definitely lost the battle in the Global South,” said one senior G7 diplomat. “All the work we have done with the Global South [over Ukraine] has been lost . . . Forget about rules, forget about world order. They won’t ever listen to us again.”
“What we said about Ukraine has to apply to Gaza. Otherwise we lose all our credibility,” the senior G7 diplomat added. “The Brazilians, the South Africans, the Indonesians: why should they ever believe what we say about human rights?”
Just four weeks before the Hamas assault on Israel, leaders from the US, EU and western allies attended the G20 summit in New Delhi and asked developing nations to condemn Russia’s attacks on Ukrainian civilians in order to uphold respect for the UN charter and international law. Many of those officials told the Financial Times they have had the same argument read back at them in demands for condemnation of Israel’s retaliatory assault on Gaza, and of its decision to restrict water, electricity and gas supplies there.
source: https://www.ft.com/content/e0b43918-7eaf-4a11-baaf-d6d7fb61a8a5
archive: https://archive.is/TxkRb
Everyone the establishment doesn’t like is a Russian troll these days. Coincidence, or propaganda?
I like that you specifically posted a right wing source that liberals spent years demonizing during Trump’s and Biden’s terms. It’s weird how right wing you people are just openly being.
They’re attacking Jill Stein because she’s running a campaign that will have absolutely no impact on the world except for enticing some number of would-be Harris voters to instead throw their votes away. If the Green Party were serious about change, they’d focus on races where they could actually win instead of actively causing harm to the party that is much more likely to actually do the things they say they want. Instead, they’ve basically outright stated that all they care about is hurting the Democrats. It’s a terrible electoral system that needs to be fixed, but until it is, third parties are always going to present a false option that effectively does the opposite of what their voters actually want.
Not only did the Democrats not deliver on the Green New Deal they promised, but they expanded the private prisons at the border https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/unchecked-growth-private-prison-corporations-and-immigration-detention-three-years-into-the-biden-administration
What does this have to do with anything? Yes, the Democratic Party is flawed. That doesn’t change the fact that voting Green will make my political desires slightly less likely, and will make my political fears slightly more likely, compared to voting for a Democrat.
I have an idea, how about everyone votes for whoever they like? Freedom of choice and all that. I personally don’t like racists and genociders, so Harris lost my vote and Trump never had it. I was actually willing to give Harris a chance after Biden dropped but she delivered one insult after another, she clearly doesn’t want my vote. Would you vote for someone who insults you or those you care about?
Of course anyone can vote for who they like, or not vote at all, no one’s saying otherwise. It’s Harris’s job to earn your vote, and she clearly hasn’t. But pushing third parties as the solution to any problem is going to do more harm than good until we get a better election system. It may feel better to vote for a party that more clearly aligns with your positions, but if they have no path to actually acquiring any power to make change, you’re doing nothing while feeling like you did something. Changing the policies of a flawed party that actually has power is much harder, and yes, there might be compromise or half-measures, but that’s an infinitely more productive path. (More productive than that is doing direct action outside of the electoral system entirely, but both things can be done at the same time.)
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It’s absolutely incredible that people think this is an actual sound argument.
I’m voting for neither Republicans or Democrats so that means I’m voting for both
Actually by not voting for Trump I am supporting Harris
I implore you, if you at all believe in a free Palestine, you will take action to vote for Harris.
Voting for a candidate who has vowed to continue a genocide will not, in fact, stop the genocide.
You have to work with the tools we have.
Bourgeois democracy will never willingly hand you the tools to dismantle itself. Nothing other than revolution will ever dismantle this system of genocide and working class oppression.
I really don’t understand how people keep forgetting that DONALDFUCKINGTRUP is the other option. He would literally nuke the area given the chance and has said as much.
How does that excuse the Democrats arming a genocide?
Did I say that it does?
Please do yourself a favor and look into the 50+ year history of the US sending arms to Israel. You’ll find that it’s not possible for the US to completely pull out of supporting them with military aid.
You’re justifying voting for a party actively involved in a genocide by saying the alternative is worse. So, yes you are absolutely excusing what the democrats are doing. At least have the decency to come out and say it.
You’ll find that it’s not possible for the US to completely pull out of supporting them with military aid.
Why not? The US has supported Israel since its formation, no arguments there, but so what? Why couldn’t that change?
You keep bringing up Trump every time someone points out that Democrats are gleefully enabling genocide, yet no one here has ever expressed the slightest interest for voting for Trump.
You’ll find that it’s not possible for the US to completely pull out of supporting them with military aid.
Why the fuck isn’t it?
if you at all believe in a free Palestine, you will take action to vote for Harris
How? Harris isn’t even allowing Palestinian Americans to speak. She isn’t even trying to appeal to them or acknowledge them.
I was idealistic when I was young too
Thanks for the compliment but my bad back calls bullshit on me being young.
How?
Because Trump is firmly aligned with Netanyahu and opposed to the existence of Palestine.
And Biden and Harris aren’t? Harris even parrots the lies about mass rape by Hamas and that Israel is defending itself.
No. Not like Trump. Not by a long shot.
Trump openly told Netanyahu to eradicate the Palestinians. Trump has empowered Israel over and over again. if anyone gained anything during Trump’s presidency it was Israel.
Trump openly told Netanyahu to eradicate the Palestinians. Trump has empowered Israel over and over again.
Exclusive: US has sent Israel thousands of 2,000-pound bombs since Oct. 7
Pay attention to the news, please. Biden sent Israel thousands of 2000-pound bombs, he is helping Israel eradicate Palestinians.
Try reading more than a headline.
Ok, sure. Here’s the second paragraph:
Between the war’s start last October and recent days, the United States has transferred at least 14,000 of the MK-84 2,000-pound bombs, 6,500 500-pound bombs, 3,000 Hellfire precision-guided air-to-ground missiles, 1,000 bunker-buster bombs, 2,600 air-dropped small-diameter bombs, and other munitions, according to the officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly.
Question for you, who has been the president of the US since October 7, 2023?
That’s better than what Trump has done and will do. It sucks but it’s the best option for the people in the area.
No it isn’t. You can’t explain our situation to us, you have zero clue.
So is Harris.
That is a lie. The United States supports Israel because of its position in the region. To defend democracy and economies in the region, the US has to negotiate with the Israel terrorist state. Trump doesn’t give a shit about anyone in the region and has fully supported Netanyahu’s genocide. The current conflict is largely due to Trump’s actions as president and Biden’s inaction as president.
Tell me more about how elections work you seem to really understand democracy
To defend democracy
the US has to negotiate with the Israel terrorist state
And by negotiate you mean unconditionally arm their genocide?
Trump doesn’t give a shit about anyone in the region and has fully supported Netanyahu’s genocide
Again, the weapons Israel is using for their genocide were sent to them by Biden, not Trump. https://www.reuters.com/world/us-has-sent-israel-thousands-2000-pound-bombs-since-oct-7-2024-06-28/
The current conflict is largely due to Trump’s actions as president and Biden’s inaction as president
Once again, Biden is actively arming this genocide. That doesn’t sound like inaction to me.
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Imagine what would have happened if Biden / Congress didn’t continue military contracts
Had you been paying attention to the actual news, you would know that the US has been arming Israel for decades
Okay, and? Israel has been a genocidal colonizer state since its inception. Every previous president who armed them is a war criminal, too.
This is the most complicated international conflict in our lifetime
It really isn’t. Israel is a genocidal settler state living on stolen land. They should be abolished and the land returned to Palestine, its rightful owners. What part of this are you struggling with?
Not because the US supports genocide but because the US supports the destruction of terrorism in the region.
Oh fuck off. You said yourself they only care about Israel because of its position in the region. They don’t give a shit about terrorism, they’ve been actively funding terrorists and destabilizing the region for decades. It’s never been about democracy or fighting terror and you are incredibly naive if you still believe this. It’s only ever been about extracting as much oil from the region as possible as cheaply as possible.
You are choosing the person who is literally saying he wants to destroy Palestine over the person who is “actively arming this genocide”
Excuse me? I’m not choosing shit. Please link to me exactly where I said I was going to vote for Trump. I have never once expressed any interest in voting for him, not in 2016, nor 2020, nor today. No, refusing to vote for Harris is not, in fact, a vote for Trump. That’s not how voting works and you are a literal baby if you think not voting for a specific candidate is inherently a vote for another.
Biden and Blinken are still trying to get a ceasefire and support for a two state solution
They have never been serious about a ceasefire. Biden is still sending Israel all the weapons they need to carry out their extermination campaign. If he was even the smallest bit serious about enforcing a ceasefire he would stop sending them weapons to fire.
Oh well if they’re trying real hard to get a ceasefire I guess they’re just weak and incompetent. In which case why would I support them.
It must be exhausting always rooting for the antihero.
As opposed to, what?, rooting for accelerationism? Trying to actually make things incrementally better isn’t good enough, so burn the whole fucking thing down (but of course in your fantasy you survive…)?
Things were undeniably better under Biden than they were under Trump. Obama was better than Bush. we keep trying to improve shit, and y’all are insisting that breaking it all is better than continual improvement.
Things were undeniably better under Biden than they were under Trump.
In what way exactly?
Real income is up. Gas prices relative to the value of the dollar are down. Employment is far, far higher than the last year of Trump being in office. Crime is down across the board, esp. violent crime. Inflation is back to the same levels that it was.
People complain about groceries being higher in price, which is true, but the real income has gone up faster than grocery prices. People say that they would rather see prices drop, without understanding that that’s deflation, and that deflation is the start of a death-spiral for an economy.
People perceive things differently, but that isn’t reflected in the reality.
Real income is not up relative to the cost of living. In fact, the situation today is worse than it was under Trump. Employment is absolutely terrible, and the dems have been cooking numbers, with latest report having been revised down by a stunning 800K https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/news/talent-acquisition/us-employment-gains-revised-down-over-800k-jobs
In fact, over a quarter of people are living in subsistence wages unable to make any savings, and nearly 60% of people can’t even afford a 1k emergency expense. Furthermore, nearly 6 in 10 U.S. adults are uncomfortable with their level of emergency savings, according to a new Bankrate poll. Before 2022, the percentage had been rising, from 37 percent in 2018 to 44 percent in 2020, 48 percent in 2021 and 58 percent in 2022. This year, it’s barely budged from 57 percent in 2023.
Crime is down across the board, esp. violent crime
[citation needed] especially one that explains what specific policies dems passed that caused crime to go down
People complain about groceries being higher in price, which is true, but the real income has gone up faster than grocery prices.
[citation needed]
People say that they would rather see prices drop, without understanding that that’s deflation, and that deflation is the start of a death-spiral for an economy.
People say they want their cost of living to go down. Seems to me that you’re the one who doesn’t understand what the implications of people not being able to afford basic needs are. Spending drops, people start defaulting on debt, companies aren’t able to sell goods, leading to layoffs, and that’s how economic crises start.
People perceive things differently, but that isn’t reflected in the reality.
Your comment is a perfect example of this phenomenon.
It’s exhausting having to explain commons sense to people.
Oh? What common sense
I hand you two plates of cat turds, common sense says you have to eat one of them. /s
Common sense means stopping genocide by voting for a pro-genocide candidate
Agreed 100%. I reached voting age in 2008 and I was one of those “both sides suck” idealistic young voters who voted third party. I did again in 2012 and again in 2016 thinking “Hillary’s already got this one, I can protest vote”. Nope, we ended up with Trump. Ever since that I will only vote blue no matter who, at least as long as the Democrats are the only viable party with some sense of normalcy. Third parties are completely unviable in the US election system. We need ranked choice for a third party vote to not be a throwaway vote. Until that happens, we can’t afford to pick “the best choice”, we have to pick “the best choice that actually has a chance”. Even if it’s not really the best choice. Very happy to have gone out and voted early last week. We need the blue wave. Once the Republican party is thoroughly stomped into the ground and made completely unviable can we focus on a truly liberal third party, but honestly we probably have a better chance of slowly moving the Dems left than we do a third party taking over. It may not happen in my lifespan but I’d rather see progress than regression.
Once the Republican party is thoroughly stomped into the ground and made completely unviable can we focus on a truly liberal third party
The Democrats will never allow that to happen. Nancy Pelosi Says U.S. ‘Needs a Strong Republican Party’
but honestly we probably have a better chance of slowly moving the Dems left than we do a third party taking over
Liberals said that shit in 2016 and again in 2020 and the Democrats have only moved to the right. They’ve outflanked the GOP on the border and are actively supporting a genocide.
Ok, what is your strategy then? I don’t disagree that some prominent Democrats aren’t as liberal as we like, but Nancy Pelosi isn’t a government official anymore. As the old guard gets replaced, the hope is that we bring in more and more liberal people over time. Voting third party is ineffective no matter how you look at it, at least not in the Presidential election. If third parties want any hope of taking over they need to start small and win local and state positions rather than just trying to start at the top. Another comment here said the Green Party has 200 elected positions of like 50000+. That’s nowhere near enough influence on the ground to win a Presidential race.
Voting third party - waste your vote. Your vote means nothing. There is no chance that a third party wins a Presidential election and to think otherwise is naive. If you’re a young voter, voting for the first time, you may think this is a good option. I sure did, and if you vote third party I can’t stop you, but in a few election cycles I hope you’ll come to the same realization that it’s a waste of time. Hopefully your wasted vote doesn’t let something as evil as Trump’s Presidency happen.
Vote Republican - we definitely, actively, vocally, and happily continue to endorse Israel and genocide and probably stop supporting Ukraine at all and possibly even support Russia directly. We know what side Trump is on. Voting Trump doesn’t help the genocide situation at all. Things in the US will go to shit, that’s almost a given. Fascism gets worse on the global stage.
Vote Democrat - we know that there is at least conflict among Dems regarding Israel and Palestine. We know that they strongly support Ukraine and oppose Russia. They probably won’t stop supplying Israel, but at least there’s a chance that something will change. There’s also still the subject of control of the Senate, House, and Supreme Court - the President alone can’t do everything. It’s not a perfect situation, but few things in life are. We do know that things in the US will be much better under Dems.
Unfortunately, it’s going to be very very difficult to break the two-party paradigm without ranked choice voting here in the US. Do you see a serious path forward for the US that doesn’t involve supporting Israel? I don’t. At least not right now. Be serious. The US has too many interests (militarily and economically) in Israel. I’m open to suggestions as long as they are realistic.
As the old guard gets replaced, the hope is that we bring in more and more liberal people over time.
We just today had the poster child of the “new guard” of the democrats coming out and talking about how great it is that nothing happens now. While we are one year into a genocide. While we are further building the wall and enforcing all the border policies that she went down to the border to have a photo op crying at.
Do you think AOC will save anyone? She’ll just go back to brunch while the world burns.
Voting third party is ineffective no matter how you look at it, at least not in the Presidential election.
If you can’t see further than a single election cycle ahead I guess. Consistently voting for the “lesser evil” will only make the “lesser evil” more evil. If there is a voting bloc that is strong enough to apparently scupper the democrats maybe they should try to appeal to them in any way rather than court the people voting for the “greater evil”?
Ok, what is your strategy then?
Nothing less than the revolutionary overthrow of the corrupt, genocidal US state.
As the old guard gets replaced, the hope is that we bring in more and more liberal people over time.
Remind me of the last time that worked.
Voting third party - waste your vote. Your vote means nothing.
Some democracy you’ve got there, huh?
There is no chance that a third party wins a Presidential election and to think otherwise is naive.
I’m under no illusions that my third party candidate is going to win. The point is to send a message to the Democrats that their unwavering support for genocide is going to cost them votes, maybe even the election. And if it does they have no one but their own genocidal asses to blame.
Vote Republican - we definitely, actively, vocally, and happily continue to endorse Israel and genocide
Who’s arming Israel right now? Who has vowed to continue arming Israel?
Grow a spine and stop supporting genocide.
Nothing less than the revolutionary overthrow of the corrupt, genocidal US state.
There’s a reason I asked for a serious answer. Good luck with that.
Good luck on voting your way out of fascism. That’s really working out well for you, isn’t it?
Hell of a lot better than “overthrowing the US regime” would that’s for damn sure, especially if Harris wins. Just remember the Jan 6th people wanted to do the same thing, if for different reasons. Look at how well that’s going for them. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
This is an interesting perspective that I haven’t thought of or considered.
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A socialist party would be nice in u.s politics.
There’s a few running, that the democrats tried and failed to kick off the ballot in many states. Party for Socialism and Liberation is one.
The US greens are also an eco-socialist party. Ajamu Baraka is a great anti-imperialist / communist writer, and he was the green party’s VP pick last time.
I heard of greens, but as a party I hadn’t actually seen them or any of the others covered much. Usually you just hear about Republicans and democrats. Might just be censorship and lack of exposure in the u.s.
If they would actually do the work at the local level to get candidates elected in towns, counties, and states, then they might even be viable at a national level at some point. But if they won’t put in the effort locally, then all they’re doing is fucking over the rest of the country when they run nationally.
Congrats you described the green party with nearly 200 elected officials across the US.
Oh, wow, nearly 200 elected officials out of 519,000 elected positions, that’s, like, .04%. (Actually, slightly less.) How many of them are state-level legislators?
They need to do MUCH better before they start trying to field national level candidates.
They can do both. Publicity is 90% of running for office, and stein running at the national level helps down ballot greens.
Also that’s more than all I ther third parties combined.
It… Really does not. Stein is def. hurting Greens more than helping. Everyone that actually pays attention to politics and policy closely can see exactly what’s going on, and can see that Stein is working for Trump and Putin; that’s at odds with what the party claims to stand for.
