The Lemmygrad mod team has deliberated and decided that “patsocs”, especially those claiming the title such as Maupin, Hinckle, and Infrared, are hereby banned and are not welcome on lemmygrad.

This ban does not include those who feel some level of “patriotism” (for lack of a better word) for non-settler states ( namely those who have historically been victims of colonialism ).

Discussions surrounding the topics of settler-colonialism, and decolonization will always be allowed, as long as they don’t veer into the territory of defenses of colonialism, or affinity with colonizer over the colonized.

This includes:

  • No apologia of settler-colonialism, or defenses of colonizer over the colonized. IE no defenses of Israelis over Palestinians, or European Settlers over indigenous americans fighting for the return of stolen lands.
  • Please adhere to the Marxist-Leninist principle of Right of Nations to Self-Determination: especially holding true for indigeous peoples.
  • Please adhere to the Marxist-Leninist principle of Proletarian Internationalism.
  • No social-chauvinism, or opportunistic appeals to “conservative values” to win converts to socialism.

Here are some Marxist books / resources to learn more about Settler-Colonialism ( Audiobook torrents are linked as well )

  • VictimOfReligion@lemmygrad.ml
    0·
    3 years ago

    Spaniard here. Giving this issue of patsocs, I am obligated to bring the petition to ban every sign of patriotism regarding Spain and specially if talking about the past, and also if mixed with catholic paraphernalia. Trust me, those are irredeemable signs of literal fascism. Example, the fucking scumbag of Santiago Armesilla.

    • IngrownMink4☭@lemmygrad.ml
      0·
      3 years ago

      Santiago Armesilla has produced quite important works where he synthesizes the philosophical materialism of the philosopher Gustavo Bueno with the dialectical materialism of Marx. Beyond that, you are absolutely right.

      He has always defended Spanish imperialism and has justified on many occasions the deplorable acts committed by the Spanish empire. And not only that. He is, as you rightly comment, a sympathizer of the conservative and Catholic parties in Spain and he’s also transphobic.

      • VictimOfReligion@lemmygrad.ml
        0·
        3 years ago

        When I really seen his true colors, was when some 5 years ago or so, Catalans where campaigning for independence, and made a popular referendum in which, literally, I shit you not, okay? In a Looney Toons Cruiser like ten thousand of military police went to Catalonia, all hight as fuck of snorting coke, almost everyone being tattooed with Nazi paraphernalia, to smash catalanists. Of course, the movement went nowhere, since only a socialist movement will in any way will emancipate this nation, but they literally had a “white card” to go and do bonehead/nazi raids on the streets to pass time during the nights.

        And that motherfucking asshole went like “good”.

        My balls dropped.

      • VictimOfReligion@lemmygrad.ml
        0·
        3 years ago

        TL;DR a nazbol, but instead of nazi, it’s NatCath.

        He’s a self claimed communist that’s a reactionary, spanish imperialism apologist, and even declared himself as “atheist catholic”, which basically means “I don’t believe in God but “Land, Patriotism and God(” Tierra, Patria y Dios” are the Francoist/Fascist motto)", and ideologically defended the settlements on Morocco, Catalonia and Euskadi+Navarra.

        He was the main reason that the PCOE had to have a purge, being him purged. (note: I may be confusing PCOE with PCPE, which as you can see, have very simmilar names).

  • applymarxismtoai@lemmygrad.ml
    0·
    3 years ago

    The CIA is probably going to use patsocs to infiltrate marxist groups and distract the public.

    Marxist parties in the U.S should hopefully start banning them soon.

      • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.mlOPM
        0·
        3 years ago

        By turning socialism into a “conservative-friendly” movement, they defang it and take away its revolutionary potential, and easily steer it to social chauvinist directions. There’s a long history of them doing this with labor movements, and this happened in almost every country going back to Lenin’s day.

        This is why most of Marxism’s greatest works are polemics against social chauvinists / reactionary “socialists” ( state and rev, the renegade kautsky, reform or revolution, critique of the gotha programme ).

        Reread the post text above.

    • VictimOfReligion@lemmygrad.ml
      0·
      3 years ago

      They made this with Anarchists and SocDems. And literally the Frankfurt and French School of Critical Thinking were manufactured with the same intention.

  • KiG V2@lemmygrad.ml
    0·
    3 years ago

    I can’t really articulate myself very well right now because I’m in the middle of a mental breakdown and a bender (totally unrelated) but I feel like user SaddamHussein was interpreted in very bad faith regarding what they were trying to say using Israelis as an example.

    I haven’t seen any people we regard as patsocs as defending settler colonialism or anything of the sort (though I am not familiar with many, such as Hinkle, Infrared etc.).

    I guess in my head, regarding for example the point of “appeals to conservative values to win people to socialism,” I would rather have a liberal who is for gay marriage than a liberal who is homophobic. I would rather have a social democrat who is anticommunist than a fascist who is anticommunist. Likewise, I would rather have a bigot who believes in class war than a bigot who does not believe in class war, and so on.

    “Patriotic socialism” is not for me, I would never wave an American flag around for anything but pure satire, and even then it’d feel nauseating. By I also think this is a complicated war with many facets. For example, Frankfurt is dangerous in many a way, by why not also radicalize some academia ghouls? Why not soften up the incredibly reactionary American proletariat to seeing a hammer and sickle? Even if it’s just seen as a step in the radicalization funnel, for then people like us to step in and convince them to drop the Stars and Stripes.

    Which I guess is a similar situation with socdems, and we sure as hell don’t need socdems here…

    Idk I just am uncomfortable with SaddamHussein in particular getting banned I guess. Seemed like a pretty cool one to me.

    I’m sorry if I am late as all hell replying to anything, I have like 100+ notifications and have been procrastinating ever checking them, plus the aforementioned “My Life, O My Life” shit. I respect you all and some of the arguments being made and I hope to not make any enemies with this, I value everybody here.

    • KirovReporting@lemmygrad.ml
      0·
      3 years ago

      I agree,while I am kinda indifferent on the whole patsoc thing (literally on the other side of the world),I do think that they could make more good than bad (once again I am not from America,and it would be in my interest if America was destroyed). Also yeah, i personally think that SaddamHussein’s ban was a bit too quick, he was very civil

    • GloriousDoubleK@lemmygrad.ml
      0·
      3 years ago

      Saddam got banned? Ouch.

      I strongly disagreed with them. But I dunno about banning. Perhaps it isnt for me to say though. 😕

      I genuinely liked what they had to say as far as meat and potatoes theory went.

      Eh. Banning them just doesn’t sit right with me.

  • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
    0·
    3 years ago

    This ban does not include those who feel some level of “patriotism” (for lack of a better word) for non-settler states ( namely those who have historically been victims of colonialism ).

    How about past or future proletarian states?

      • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
        0·
        3 years ago

        By idealist prophecies and unexplained slogans of course /s

        Seriously, for example by a political program of an communist party. Or a speculation for one.

      • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml
        0·
        3 years ago

        Past socialist state as in USSR or PRL or DDR for example. Future, as in the ones for which establishment socialists are fighting, names and scope are probably yet to be decided.

        • TheConquestOfBed@lemmy.ml
          0·
          3 years ago

          Past socialist state as in USSR or PRL or DDR for example.

          The answer to this should be obvious from the number of Stalin posts and GDR imagery that literally everyone celebrates and never get downvotes. AES obviously had their issues at times but are/were legitimately marxist and necessary alleviators of class antagonisms.

          Future, as in the ones for which establishment socialists are fighting, names and scope are probably yet to be decided.

          Obviously this would depend on the character of these projects. Good dialectical analysis doesn’t draw conclusions in broad strokes but considers each situation, its historical causes, and the class interests of its proponents. Hence why we celebrate the Bolsheviks and not the Socialist Revolutionary Party.

        • Muad'Dibber@lemmygrad.mlOPM
          0·
          3 years ago

          Of course not, we support the USSR and DDR here, neither were settler-colonialist states. The USSR and peoples in eastern europe were the victim of european colonialism in the form of nazism.

          The nazis really wanted to emulate what the US settler project acheived, and they were explicit about that, and do to eastern europe what the US did to turtle island.

    • GloriousDoubleK@lemmygrad.ml
      0·
      3 years ago

      The issue is seeing those that know better play a dangerous game with BAD IDEAS.

      All comrades must be disciplined to some degree.

      Not every person from the country is a raving bigoted lunatic and more times than not; because I was RAISED in a poor Appalacian town; I hesitate or dont feel accurate equating the working class from the holler to the well paid chauvanistic good ol boys who owned acres and acres of land and rolled coal from their huge trucks to trigger the blue haired libs theyve never met.

      I find it really weird that they assume that most patriots are somehow all in flyover country and those who live in urban areas and maybe ambiantly picked up some progressive or inclusive manners are somehow all champaign Astoria snobs.