How about I just get to eat meat because I consider it far more humane to be more efficient about proteins? And eggs and cheeses are more efficient with all sorts of aminos.
As much as I respect vegans I also don’t agree with their approach. I am of the opinion (as is most biologists) that we are omnivores.
No vegans dispute this. In fact that is a large reason we point that meat is not a necessity to a healthy diet like many claim.
But fundamentally I’m not here to talk about veganism. You are entitled to your own beliefs, I only wanted to provide a complete answer to the “hypocritical vegans” comment that appears in every thread paints feeling pain. While I personally think deciding that things are most “humane” when they are “efficient” for you regardless of the effect it has on others is selfish and motivated reasoning, thus unethical. But this thread nor community is a place to discuss ethics, I clearly illuminated why equating plant rights and animal rights is silly, so frankly I would just like to end the discussion there. Thanks.
I’ve actually seen vegans dispute that. I have no problem with veganism. It is not a bad idea. I don’t eat meat, but I do not have the willpower (or the money) to be a vegan.
That’s an urban myth as the whole foods plant-based diet is 30% cheaper and it’s only the prepackaged supermarket vegan alternatives that are more expensive on average.
There are several products that are more expensive in any diet like waygu steak or decades old wine.
Oxford University research has today revealed that, in countries such as the US, the UK, Australia and across Western Europe, adopting a vegan, vegetarian, or flexitarian diet could slash your food bill by up to one-third.
That’s study doesn’t cover people who have some or all of their food subsidized or provided for free, people who hunt fish or trap for their food, nor those who raise their own. it covers nobody who is working poor, only people who pay full retail price for all their food.
Well I do think getting protein from many sources makes more sense and easier to obtain. Are there other options? Absolutely. But how available are they at all times and how much do I need to eat to get the same amount? I hear what you are saying by selfishness but we kind of have to be. It’s what fuels this giant meat puppet I move around daily.
You think vegans just eat blocks of tofu all day? My diet has never been more varied and flavorful than when I went vegan. Every single environmental impact study says animal agriculture is a bane to our continued existence, and it goes so far beyond that. Our lands and crops are swallowed up by this ever-rotating machine of suffering and murder that affects the lives of billions of land animals every year, which die terrified and in pain. No “varied protein” myth is worth so much suffering.
And now it seems we can say the same with plants. Life per se is bad because it is based on a predatory scheme. We need to eat more living things in order to keep living…
No, they do not. There is no serious study to suggest that they do. Plants do not have a brain or central nervous system. At most, they respond to stimuli.
If you really care that much about the welfare of plants, you should go vegan, since many more plants “die” for animal feeding.
Do you feel bad while mowing your lawn? And would you rather rescue a potted plant than a dog from a burning house? Is docking pig tails the same as branch trimming to you? Question upon question…
No. One of my sisters is a vegan and we have had extensive talks about it. Yea garbanzo and peanut butter are great power packed availability. But peanut butter only goes so far. Garbanzo needs a massive amount to match isolated whey or anything close.
I totally agree with the environmental impact. I wish I could have locally sourced options that wouldn’t impact the environment so much.
I love how micromanaging nutrition only ever comes up when veganism is mentioned. Do you think people who gorge themselves on steak and cheeseburgers are inherently healthier than someone with a vegan diet because they consume animal protein? You might be shocked to learn that the densest source of protein doesn’t come from an animal.
EDIT: You DO have local sources available to you. It’s in the same grocery store you buy slaughtered animals from.
That isn’t factual. The diversity of food is different in every area. And it doesn’t come up just in veganism. Nutritionists and athletes talk about it often.
You can stop pretending that you’re trying to advocate for people in food-starved areas. Veganism, believe it or not, has never actually been about trying to force people in marginalized areas to adopt a vegan diet. Veganism is about harm reduction, full stop. The people who appeal to veganism are the same people who can make those choices in any grocery store that they go to, whether they live in a food desert or not. Personally, I don’t live in an area that’s considered vegan-friendly. However, I find myself to be okay with that purely because I know for a fact that my decisions aren’t reliant on convenience alone.
You can’t pretend to know who I am and what I advocate for. I am ending this conversation now because it isn’t from a place of understanding. It’s coming off as angry.
While seemingly 99% of people say this about themselves, the proportion of organic meat in virtually all western countries is less than 2%. Maybe you consciously buy organic products for the big feast, but then in everyday life you go get your weekly hamburger, the restaurant around the corner, or “just this once” prefer to reach for the somewhat cheaper discount products. Moreover, in organic farming, animals suffer and die in the same way. Organic cannot solve the core problems: Murder and exploitation for pleasure. The goal is more about soothing the conscience of consumers rather than actually helping the animals.
What? The entire point of veganism is that it is an entire order of magnitude more efficient than eating meat. Turns out all the land we use to feed animals we can just grow soybeans on instead. Speaking of which, you want amino acids? Wanna take a guess what has all the amino acids you need? That’s right, tofu! It’s widely recognized as the healthiest source of protein possible. That sets it apart from red or processed meat, which actively gives you heart disease and cancer.
Look, I’m sorry, but you’re just wrong. If you want to eat meat despite the facts indicating you shouldn’t, that’s fine. Same as you can decide to smoke cigarettes and drive a Hummer. Just be aware that it’s worse for both you and the entire planet.
Excessive soy beans has side effects as well. Most nutritionists (like doctors) agree that plant based with diversity of meats is the healthier option.
You don’t need those animal products for nothing. As most doctors are carnists and do not fully understand nutrition because they have not studied the topic much in their training.
The objective of this article is to present to physicians an update on plant-based diets. Concerns about the rising cost of health care are being voiced nationwide, even as unhealthy lifestyles are contributing to the spread of obesity, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease. For these reasons, physicians looking for cost-effective interventions to improve health outcomes are becoming more involved in helping their patients adopt healthier lifestyles. Healthy eating may be best achieved with a plant-based diet, which we define as a regimen that encourages whole, plant-based foods and discourages meats, dairy products, and eggs as well as all refined and processed foods. We present a case study as an example of the potential health benefits of such a diet. Research shows that plant-based diets are cost-effective, low-risk interventions that may lower body mass index, blood pressure, HbA1C, and cholesterol levels. They may also reduce the number of medications needed to treat chronic diseases and lower ischemic heart disease mortality rates. Physicians should consider recommending a plant-based diet to all their patients, especially those with high blood pressure, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, or obesity.
How about I just get to eat meat because I consider it far more humane to be more efficient about proteins? And eggs and cheeses are more efficient with all sorts of aminos.
As much as I respect vegans I also don’t agree with their approach. I am of the opinion (as is most biologists) that we are omnivores.
No vegans dispute this. In fact that is a large reason we point that meat is not a necessity to a healthy diet like many claim.
But fundamentally I’m not here to talk about veganism. You are entitled to your own beliefs, I only wanted to provide a complete answer to the “hypocritical vegans” comment that appears in every thread paints feeling pain. While I personally think deciding that things are most “humane” when they are “efficient” for you regardless of the effect it has on others is selfish and motivated reasoning, thus unethical. But this thread nor community is a place to discuss ethics, I clearly illuminated why equating plant rights and animal rights is silly, so frankly I would just like to end the discussion there. Thanks.
I’ve actually seen vegans dispute that. I have no problem with veganism. It is not a bad idea. I don’t eat meat, but I do not have the willpower (or the money) to be a vegan.
But I have seen that.
That’s an urban myth as the whole foods plant-based diet is 30% cheaper and it’s only the prepackaged supermarket vegan alternatives that are more expensive on average.
There are several products that are more expensive in any diet like waygu steak or decades old wine.
Source
Your paste:
Me:
Either you did not read my post or you ignored it to lecture me anyway. Either way, you are not here in good faith.
I’m only disputing your claim that the “vegan diet is expensive.”
Claiming the vegan diet is expensive when a comprehensive study by Oxford on the topic says otherwise necessitates reexamining the claim.
That’s study doesn’t cover people who have some or all of their food subsidized or provided for free, people who hunt fish or trap for their food, nor those who raise their own. it covers nobody who is working poor, only people who pay full retail price for all their food.
I did not say that. Do not put it in quotes because that is not what I said.
I said:
Because we’re fucking poor.
Also there’s this issue: https://lemmy.world/post/18940775
Believe it or not, the plant-based version of Ensure is a lot more expensive and I’d like to not starve to death if it’s all the same to you.
Maybe learn a little about a person before pointing fingers, especially when they’re on your side.
Well I do think getting protein from many sources makes more sense and easier to obtain. Are there other options? Absolutely. But how available are they at all times and how much do I need to eat to get the same amount? I hear what you are saying by selfishness but we kind of have to be. It’s what fuels this giant meat puppet I move around daily.
You think vegans just eat blocks of tofu all day? My diet has never been more varied and flavorful than when I went vegan. Every single environmental impact study says animal agriculture is a bane to our continued existence, and it goes so far beyond that. Our lands and crops are swallowed up by this ever-rotating machine of suffering and murder that affects the lives of billions of land animals every year, which die terrified and in pain. No “varied protein” myth is worth so much suffering.
And now it seems we can say the same with plants. Life per se is bad because it is based on a predatory scheme. We need to eat more living things in order to keep living…
Vegan Bullshit Bingo
#22: Plants have feelings too
you can’t prove that plants don’t have feelings.
What do you want, commie? Stop wasting my time.
I just want people in c/science to stick to scientifically provable claims
No. One of my sisters is a vegan and we have had extensive talks about it. Yea garbanzo and peanut butter are great power packed availability. But peanut butter only goes so far. Garbanzo needs a massive amount to match isolated whey or anything close.
I totally agree with the environmental impact. I wish I could have locally sourced options that wouldn’t impact the environment so much.
I love how micromanaging nutrition only ever comes up when veganism is mentioned. Do you think people who gorge themselves on steak and cheeseburgers are inherently healthier than someone with a vegan diet because they consume animal protein? You might be shocked to learn that the densest source of protein doesn’t come from an animal.
EDIT: You DO have local sources available to you. It’s in the same grocery store you buy slaughtered animals from.
That isn’t factual. The diversity of food is different in every area. And it doesn’t come up just in veganism. Nutritionists and athletes talk about it often.
You can stop pretending that you’re trying to advocate for people in food-starved areas. Veganism, believe it or not, has never actually been about trying to force people in marginalized areas to adopt a vegan diet. Veganism is about harm reduction, full stop. The people who appeal to veganism are the same people who can make those choices in any grocery store that they go to, whether they live in a food desert or not. Personally, I don’t live in an area that’s considered vegan-friendly. However, I find myself to be okay with that purely because I know for a fact that my decisions aren’t reliant on convenience alone.
You can’t pretend to know who I am and what I advocate for. I am ending this conversation now because it isn’t from a place of understanding. It’s coming off as angry.
Local meat is not better for the environment. Scientific information is only one click away. Look at this graph, it’s impressive. Plus:
Vegan Bullshit Bingo
#11 I only eat organic and regional
this is just more poore-nemecek, a paper debunked by its own citations
lol, stop trolling. Nothing is real right? Animal suffering is.
this is a science community. it’s reasonable to expect people to provide good science.
Local meat is local murder.
What? The entire point of veganism is that it is an entire order of magnitude more efficient than eating meat. Turns out all the land we use to feed animals we can just grow soybeans on instead. Speaking of which, you want amino acids? Wanna take a guess what has all the amino acids you need? That’s right, tofu! It’s widely recognized as the healthiest source of protein possible. That sets it apart from red or processed meat, which actively gives you heart disease and cancer.
Look, I’m sorry, but you’re just wrong. If you want to eat meat despite the facts indicating you shouldn’t, that’s fine. Same as you can decide to smoke cigarettes and drive a Hummer. Just be aware that it’s worse for both you and the entire planet.
Excessive soy beans has side effects as well. Most nutritionists (like doctors) agree that plant based with diversity of meats is the healthier option.
You don’t need those animal products for nothing. As most doctors are carnists and do not fully understand nutrition because they have not studied the topic much in their training.
Source
your case study is over a decade old. do you have any supporting data?
the definition provided by the vegan society makes no mention of efficiency.
eating meat has no effect on the planet.
What does being omnivores have to do with anything?
What does this have to do with anything? This is bringing efficiency to an ethics fight.
I’m not fighting. I find it annoying to have to eat 16 times the amount of normal peanut butter as one chicken breast. It’s pure math.
If something is wrong, then it’s wrong, regardless of how efficient or inefficient it is.
It’s not wrong though lol
Well, that’s a completely different argument.