Yes let’s ‘both sides’ the two political parties.
That’s an intelligent and highly reasonable position to take given one party tried to overthrow the government in an attempted insurrection and the other didn’t.
Gosh golly gee, I really can’t separate them, they truly are as bad as each other!!!
The both sides argument is simultaneously a shitty argument and kind of true.
It’s like you have the choice between being stung by a wasp on your arm or being stung on your urethra. One is clearly preferable to the other, but they are both still fundamentally the same shitty experience.
Except that it is not true.
The promulgators of the ‘both sides’ argument is conservatives. Why? Because they benefit from making Democrats look as shitty as they do.
It’s how you get people to vote against their own self interest.
Convince them to give you, a wolf in sheep’s clothing, a chance because I can’t be any worse than the other guy, right?
If you honestly believe both parties are just as bad as each other then conservative propaganda has worked on you.
PS. I am not a democrat and I don’t like them as a party but when one side of US politics can give rise to a person like Bernie Sanders or AOC and the other puts forward Donald Trump you can’t honestly still think they are the same.
I mean I literally said that much in my comment.
Republicans are obviously and undeniably the worse party.
But dems are still pro cop, pro war on drugs, anti-union, pro wall street, pro billionaire, pro fossil fuel,etc etc. And you kention beanie sanders but the democrat party actively suppressed him and fucked with the primary rules to make sure he won’t get into power. They are still just the status quo, rich and powerful enabling neo liberals, that like to dress up as progressives by making token gestures that don’t really matter.
So I will obviously vote democrat because they will do by far less harm, but it’s still just choosing to be stung on the arm rather than stung in the urethra.
I think the wording is the problem. You seem to agree on the issue, but for them, “both sides” means both sides are the same amount of bad, and for you it just means both sides are bad.
The point is, both sides are bad. But as you both say, Republicans are undeniably a thousand times worse than democrats. So saying “both sides” is still bad in my opinion because it implies it wouldn’t make a difference and both sides were the same amount of bad.
That was what I was trying to convey in my original comment. “Both sides” is both stupid argument and true, depending on what context you’re using it in and what point you’re trying to make with it.
“Well both sides are bad so im just going to not vote/ vote republican since it doesnt matter” - Bad argument
“Both sides are bad, so we shouldnt assume voting dems into power is actually going to fix our problems” - good argument.
I live in India and we still have socialism in place in many things , while we have our problems , when I see america specific problems that we dont have in India , they are mostly rooted in corporate greed , and since both dems and gop are funded by the rich , they will always have a position that is rather right leaning !
Not a Crip, but using their talking points?
Democrat or Republican look the same to working class people, they get into power and help themselves and give crumbs to rest of the plebs to keep them fighting each other.
They have similarities, for sure. But yeah treason and culture-wars (in lieu of constructive policy) are notably more prevalent with one party.
More and more working class people have stopped falling for the false narrative of the lesser evil spiel.
We will proudly vote our conscious, 3rd party, doesn’t matter if swing state or not.
The bloods and crips will have to get better at convincing people to vote for them just cause less evil.
Yeah ok tankie.
Thanks, I guess…
Goodness, I hope proudly voting third party will salve your conscience when LGBT people are sent to concentration camps.
Scare mongering will not help.
We need to stop dividing ourselves by culture and identity politics.
We shall be stronger when we fight the class war that is going on.
Working class vs. the wealthy is the real problem.
Thanks for your input.
They will by then be caught up in conspiracy theories
Everything is a conspiracy until it is proven it is not.
Look at the military leaks and you will learn more on what was a conspiracy.
Imagine being this privileged. I guess you don’t need insulin, are LGBT etc?
IME the far left (once you get to the “China is a perfect communist utopia” part) are as bad as the far right. They’ve got this puritanical fervor on both sides where I’m pretty sure genocide is part of the strategy.
They’re both intolerable and intolerant people.
But the difference is in the parties. The far right controls the entire Republican Party, and the far left are treated like the insane people they are in the Democratic Party.
It literally is a party of insane people doing insanely awful things, or a flawed group of people trying to do the best they can for everyone. And morons like this guy are trying to make them look the same.
If you’re as “far left” that you support dictators and don’t even like democracy then you’re not left in my opinion.
Removed by mod
I mean, if you imagine left and right more of as a circle that connects, it all makes a lot more sense. The center of the line becomes the top of the circle that gets more extreme until you have fascists and authoritarian communists sitting next to each other, hating each other, but also looking mostly indistinguishable to anyone further up the circle.
Unironic horseshoe-theory argument as if that shit isn’t laughable on its face and gets regularly refuted. Fascism was not and is not opposed by centrist liberals. It’s opposed by leftists.
Stupid take
Name calling… thanks that helps…
To the working class they do look the same, crumbs for plebs to keep us fighting and the wealthy keep on doing what they do.
They don’t look the same at all to the working class, and the fact that you’d even suggest that makes me think you’re not being serious and this is just some Russian troll account.
Russiagate was proven false.
Not sure why people keep falling for it.
We are in different bubbles…
Am LGBT, am not a reliable Biden voter. I think I’m pretty privileged- and in a lot of ways my “LGBT status” has been a privilege.
We are all privileged, not sure how trying to out victim someone helps.
Minorities are always targeted.
Working class struggle is the focus to get more peopke to join and not divide us, status quo voting will not help.
Long term vs short term solutions.
Lol this guy thinking either party is gonna notice and strive for his attention. You need to be a popular movement to matter.
Where do you think the Bernie/AOC supporters are going? They are slowly leaving the crips gang and not going back.
Look at on the ground activists and see what they say.
Older people are blue not matter what but not the younger generations.
Lol as a Bernie supporter that knows several Bernie supporters. We like the Democrats. They are objectively doing a good job considering their lack of a majority. Bernie an AOC wouldn’t be getting much different done anyway. The biggest fault of the democratics is they don’t go far enough but they are stillaling progress.
Perfect shouldn’t be the enemy of good. Especially when fascists will absolutely destroy the country
I also know working class Bernie supporters who are done with the crips.
Slowly moving away from the two party system, it will take time.
Lemmy was not built in a day.
Fascists are not stopped by lying about how great Biden is doing and the reality of the working class struggle.
The system is cemented into 2 parties. Thrown away votes just enable a worse outcome. You can’t wish more parties into the current system. Also think about it. If we had more than 2 trump would have 100% got re elected.
Bidens doing good. We got out of Afghanistan. He’s helping Ukraine. The inflation act was a great win forcing a minimum tax on massive corporations. He did all he could on student debt and minimum wage. The infrastructure bill was a win. He wouldn’t sell offensive weapons to the Saudis
Bernie would have gotten the same amount done. Dems never had a hold of the Senate.
Biden is literally the most left president we’ve had in modern history. That in itself is sending a signal. You’re competing with a 100 million people. Getting as left as Biden is solid progress and the only realistic route to further progress.
I guess more and more of us will keep throwing away our vote for the long term and not the short term.
You sound like a democrat apologist with those talking points.
Biden is not the leftist president, he is a republican in the blue team.
Student debt was possible, you need to learn the proper way it should have been done, and stop believing what politicians tell you.
How do you even attempt to both sides after Jan 6th and trump. Both siding now a days is like claiming the sun and the moon are the same.
Working class people don’t see Jan 6 and Trump the same way you do.
How do they see it, then? Obviously poorer working class white people are more likely to be racist, ignorant Republicans, but that doesn’t prove your point.
Trump is the boogeyman for this decade -need to stop being scared of supporters and start trying to understand why they voted for Obama then trump
Both Trump and Biden have ran the country, so people have seen how things are like under both -they both suck
Predictions on elections: -I think people will not show up in the polls for Biden as much as last time -The younger generation may makeup the loss, new voters
Data on 2020 election: -Looking at 2020, people who can vote but do not show up: 33%. -67% voter turnout, higher than Obama -dissuaded voters do not vote, biden is not doing as well
edit: words and tangents are a bit more clean
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
Just rambling on, nothing to see here, hahaha
Working stiff here, you are demonstrably incorrect.
Another working stiff here, you are also incorrect.
I guess we can both agree that we are both wrong and are juat speculating.
I wish I could take your seriously, but you don’t argue in good faith.
Okay…
Thank you for your feedback…
This is stupid. If you can’t tell the difference between Republicans and Democrats at this point, you’re just hopeless.
1956
Pretty sure it wasn’t that black and white back then.
We can tell the difference, but we learned from 2016 and 2020.
No changes.
Look
I know the Democrats are far from perfect.
Large parts of them are neoliberal, capitalistic and at least financially clear right-wingers. And they often do much less than they could when on power.But DUDE! There is a huge difference between a centrist party that doesn’t fulfill what it promises and should do, and a literal fascist party trying to overthrow democracy and attempting a genocide at trans people, not even two mention their racism, homophobia and other horrible positions.
They are not one evil. There is one not very good party where many people can rightfully be disappointed and one literal nightmare horrible straight up evil party. They’re not the same.
The sad reality is that the minority groups will always be targeted. Culture wars and identity politics are distractions, the bigger picture would be coming together along class lines (workers vs. wealthy).
Looking at the long term, a person who was at the fore front of civil rights will help much more, not voting for the status quo.
Fascists are not stopped by lying to the public on how well Biden is doing. Which is what the democrats keep doing, at a certain point it will stop working.
Thank you for your input!
edit: words
bOtH sIdEs
Thanks for your feedback…
You got it chief
Everyone is focused on the “both sides”, no one is looking at how broken a non-preferential electoral system is.
Well, I suppose it’s all a matter of perspective. Sure, none of them will implement radically progressive economic policies, they will indeed serve corporate interests and the PIC. From this regard, they can be deemed relatively similar, especially when you confront them with options that would be possible but are not championed by either (ex : universal healthcare). From other points of view, they have marked differences (ex : LGBT rights). In the end, although they can’t be called the same, and the difference between them can mean life or death for people, I suppose we could say none of them display a strong commitment to emancipation and undying tries to corporate interests.
For non-Americans, the differences between your two parties are cosmetic at best. War crimes and increasingly bloated military budget continue regardless of presidency. Economic sanctions with the goal of causing suffering and unrest employed against less than convenient states are enacted and continued regardless of presidency. Your prison-industrial-complex enjoys bipartisan support. So did the war on drugs, so does the so-called war on terror. If you’re going to vote, whatever reason you have to vote for democrats easily applies to better third parties not staffed by war criminals.
You don’t speak for non Americans you bad actor
The issue is that any third parties are so weak as to be non-existent. Limited voting helps the right wing more than it does the left, so voting third party only hurts the Dems. There’s a reason the GOP is trying to make it harder to vote.
Sadly, the Republicans are the strongest party - they are unified and fixated on one goal: dismantle the US government and privatise everything for maximum profit. They are all on one message and move as a powerful group. Their organisation (and lack of consistent values) is what keeps them in power.
The Democrats love status quo so when they are in power they don’t want to make sweeping change, however needed. They are also quick to gatekeep within their ranks (ousting Franken, for example, who was exceptionally good against the GOP). There’s a much more varied pool of ideas and goals, so they are unfocussed and weaker because of it. They also have yet to realise the political playing field has changed in the past 50 years.
Independents like the Green Party fail to raise any numbers because they are even more wildly disparate in their goals and ideologies and never show an interest in local politics, where you actually build supporters and show you can be an effective leader. They only turn up for presidential elections and nobody knows who they are. After they lose, they disappear for four years. You can’t build a credible party by starting at the very top.
Ranked choice voting would solve some of this, but that’ll never happen.
TL;DR: the US is boned.
Green Party doesn’t generally show as much interest in local elections- but Libertarians often field a candidate and campaign in local elections.
Lemmy was not built in a day.
People need to keep learning and getting out of their bubbles so we can come together to fight against the wealthy.
This is not a US/West issue only.
Strikes are going on everywhere.
Thank you for your input!
