cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/32023985
Writing a 100-word email using ChatGPT (GPT-4, latest model) consumes 1 x 500ml bottle of water It uses 140Wh of energy, enough for 7 full charges of an iPhone Pro Max
Good thing we aren’t running out of fresh water or anyth-
https://www.earth.com/news/satellites-reveal-a-sudden-drop-in-global-freshwater-levels/
Fuck.
Yeah it’s not good.
I live in an area with normally lush rivers and lakes, rich forest full of life. We’re going on like day 90 of drought conditions. I can’t even light a candle without starting a fucking forest fire.
/Thirstily looks at Canada.
“Running out of fresh water” narration is a complete lie. I don’t know why, but these articles are implying its like oil that will run out some day. No, fresh water is a manufacturable good. Worst case scenario it gets more expensive as more of it needs to be produced out of salt water ect.
You do understand that the more expensive it gets, the less people can afford it, right? That’s basically the same as running out. Sure, you can desalinate the whole ocean if you want to spend the resources on it. No one is suggesting that there will one day literally be no more fresh water within the foreseeable future. That doesn’t really matter to the farmers in developing countries that can’t afford to irrigate their fields and thus can’t feed the people there.
And then there’s the fact that desalination is a huge environmental disaster.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/desalination-pours-more-toxic-brine-ocean-previously-thought
the more expensive it gets, the less people can afford it
You know, all these arguments avoid answering the question about how much more expensive water could be. And I suspect the general answer is: not much. Mass producing fresh water is well understood process. It’s also a potential source of sodium for sodium-ion batteries, cheaper alternative to lithium-ion.
And then there’s the fact that desalination is a huge environmental disaster.
I’m fully aware of that - what’s missing there is proper regulation by local governments, preventing excess salinity of water dumped back to the ocean
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Where are you gonna get the energy to desalinate water from? What about areas that are thousands of kilometres from the ocean?
Where are you gonna get the energy to desalinate water from?
From the same sources as with the energy needed to manufacture everything else. The demand for electricity has grown year by year for decades, and we haven’t run out of it.
What about areas that are thousands of kilometres from the ocean?
Regular logistics as with any other good
And how will you supply that energy, while also supplying these absurdly energy intensive LLMs and cutting CO2 emmissions?
Yes, the demand has grown year by year for decades and look at the climate catastrophe it has brought us!
Climate is a separate issue. You can supply green energy, nuclear, or burn fossil fuels. Say what you want, but as far as energy production goes, free market keeps delivering since decades.
And it just happens, that regions suffering from the biggest fresh water deficit also happen to have good conditions for solar energy production.
Climate is a separate issue.
To the energy requirements of our economy? I beg to fucking differ.
And it just happens, that regions suffering from the biggest fresh water deficit also happen to have good conditions for solar energy production.
Well, I guess the droughts are their own fault, then, or what? 🙄
To the energy requirements of our economy? I beg to fucking differ.
Well, yes - because energy can be produced from renewable sources. It isn’t fault of general economy, that the energy sector produces lots of CO2.
The solution isn’t to scale down economy, its to replace fossil fuels with nuclear and renewables
Well, I guess the droughts are their own fault, then, or what?
What???
A big consumer in the fresh water market is agriculture. Whenever articles talk about demand exceeding freshwater supplies, it’s referring to agriculture demand, which usually draw from dams, rivers, or lakes.
City water treatmant plants also usually start with pulling water from a river or water reservoir.
The costs with these consumers suddenly spinning up a saltwater or other advanced purification plant, that could perhaps function without a large freshwater reservoir, is prohibitively expensive. Especially for developing countries, where agriculture could be a large part of the economy
Dumbo I think what people mean is that demand will exceed supply, and as a result lots and lots of people will die of thirst. Water isn’t something anyone can do without.
that demand will exceed supply
You think in terms of fixed supply and fixed manufacturing capacity - but this isn’t the case. Production can be expanded as demand grows
Production can be expanded as demand grows
Lol. You must really think that you’re smarter than the whole field of hydrology and civil engineering, huh?
Overestimate the gains and potential, underestimate the cost.
Typical corporate fads.
So whenever you see people using LLM-generated content, remember to ask them how much clean drinking water it cost.
Thats actually a kind of crazy thought. Everyone has heard of the depressed AI that just shuts itself down upon gaining sentience, but what about the climate AI that shuts itself down because its the best eay to save the climate
I should stop using ai ngl.
I was having a conversation with a friend about this. At some point, the bill is going to come . It’s free, or cheap, to use everyone’s generators, but the bill will come soon. Just like Spotify, Netflix, Prime, etc. The price they’re charging now is just to ensure you get hooked and rely on it before they stay hiking to stay profitable.
That’s not to say anything about LLM collapse, or the economic cost of training new models for 10% improvements.
Its absurd
“uses four times as much water as disclosed”
