Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property and equality before the law.
There are many Marxists who are opposed to much, if not all of these things. They are unequivocally opposed to the right to private property. That is foundational to Marxism. Marxists-Leninsts specifically do not seek the consent of the governed, nor are they committed to the protection of individual rights, liberties, or political equality. You might think that makes them fascists, but they don’t consider themselves fascists. They do, however, consider themselves anti-capitalists.
If your claim is that your statement was meant to mean “Marxists are against capitalism” I’ll believe you. Your other claims are things they say about liberalism btw, don’t think about that too much.
If that is what you meant, I’m willing to believe you just said something hopelessly trite in the context, but I think we both know you meant it as a synonym for progressivism.
I think we both know you meant it as a synonym for progressivism.
Well, you’re wrong. I said liberalism, because I meant liberalism, and I gave you a definition of liberalism just so we are clear on terms.
Are some anti-capitalists also opposed to “progressivism” (as you define it)? Yes, some certainly are. Again, you may call these people fascists, but they don’t see themselves as fascists. Marxian socialism (which is anti-capitalist by definition), does not have to be progressive. Similarly, liberal capitalism does not have to be anti-progressive. Many capitalists at least claim to support anti-racism, feminism, and some form of globalism.
If that’s what you think, that’s fine. I don’t really care. But, if progressivism can’t be capitalist then people like Bernie Sanders and AOC aren’t progressives, since they’re not anti-capitalists. They advocate for a capitalist system that has a robust social safety net that’s funded by a progressive tax system.
Edit:
In modern political discourse, progressivism is often associated with social liberalism, a left-leaning type of liberalism, and social democracy. Within economic progressivism, there is some ideological variety on the social liberal to social democrat continuum, as well as occasionally some variance on cultural issues; examples of this include some Christian democrat and conservative-leaning communitarian movements. While many ideologies can fall under the banner of progressivism, both the current and historical movement are characterized by a critique of unregulated capitalism, desiring a more active democratic government to take a role in safeguarding human rights, bringing about cultural development, and being a check-and-balance on corporate monopolies. There are differences in specific approaches between factions, including capitalist-leaning social liberals and social democrats versus some anti-capitalist democratic socialists.
There are differences in specific approaches between factions, including capitalist-leaning social liberals and social democrats versus some anti-capitalist democratic socialists.
Marxists opposed to anti-racism, globalism, and feminism are just fascists
Don’t use “liberalism” to mean “progressivism.”
I use liberalism to mean liberalism:
There are many Marxists who are opposed to much, if not all of these things. They are unequivocally opposed to the right to private property. That is foundational to Marxism. Marxists-Leninsts specifically do not seek the consent of the governed, nor are they committed to the protection of individual rights, liberties, or political equality. You might think that makes them fascists, but they don’t consider themselves fascists. They do, however, consider themselves anti-capitalists.
If your claim is that your statement was meant to mean “Marxists are against capitalism” I’ll believe you. Your other claims are things they say about liberalism btw, don’t think about that too much.
If that is what you meant, I’m willing to believe you just said something hopelessly trite in the context, but I think we both know you meant it as a synonym for progressivism.
Whole lotta assuming going on here
You have to assume meaning when people aren’t using words correctly.
Well, you’re wrong. I said liberalism, because I meant liberalism, and I gave you a definition of liberalism just so we are clear on terms.
Are some anti-capitalists also opposed to “progressivism” (as you define it)? Yes, some certainly are. Again, you may call these people fascists, but they don’t see themselves as fascists. Marxian socialism (which is anti-capitalist by definition), does not have to be progressive. Similarly, liberal capitalism does not have to be anti-progressive. Many capitalists at least claim to support anti-racism, feminism, and some form of globalism.
All capitalism is anti-progressivism, and you will never catch that football until you figure that out, Charlie Brown.
If that’s what you think, that’s fine. I don’t really care. But, if progressivism can’t be capitalist then people like Bernie Sanders and AOC aren’t progressives, since they’re not anti-capitalists. They advocate for a capitalist system that has a robust social safety net that’s funded by a progressive tax system.
Edit:
From Wikipedia.
I n c o r r e c t A g a i n
They aim for gradual legislative change in a capitalist hellscape. Both are stated democratic socialists.
Personally, I think they’re fucking dreaming, but they’re doing what they can.
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