Liberals will fight and die on the hill of protecting Ukrainian neo-nazis.
Yeah that whole thread on the blahaj instance calling us equivalent to the_donald was just fuckin wild. Literally the “there is no difference between good and bad things” kind of liberal brainrot.
Idk, there were a surprising amount of users there sticking up for us
Yeah was nice to see that, but the fact after all this time people are still convinced that our critical support for socialist projects like the USSR makes us literally as bad as Nazis was disheartening.
It seems like we are picking some people up over time.
Keep in mind that a lot of them are likely recent refugees from
where that is the dominant view on pretty much any supposedly “leftist” sub that’s not explicitely ML
but for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of content for the dunk tank
Slaps roof of tank this tank can fit so many dunks in it
Yeah, I’m a tankie
lemmy.ml is also run by comrades so it will likely as well. But it seems remotely possible they would defed us over persistent violations of their rules if our admins refused to take any action about it.
Yeah, there was never any world where we were going to be able to conform to other instance’s rules very well. You can’t ever really escape culture.
they will do everything in their power to preserve their echo chamber while shrieking about tankie echo chambers
You underestimate the extent to which we’ll annoy even fellow leftists.
I’ve never been able to get an answer to this, I just get flamed for asking and I’m honestly approaching this in good faith. What’s the deal with the lefts support of Russia?
I get it, NATO is bad and has a very long track record of war crimes. But modern Russia isn’t the USSR, they’re a corrupt capitalist state just like those that make up NATO. I think Russia was wrong to invade Ukraine and that Ukraine has a right to defend itself, perhaps the west should’ve stayed out of it. I’m not a fan of either of them but the critique of the situation in Ukraine seems pretty one sided in online left spaces.
For some here “support for Russia” is strong phrasing where it’s more like “yeah, I see why Russia did that, and the Ukrainian side sucks ass, but NATO-brain liberals are totally oblivious to that (go figure), but I’m just some dumbass with opinions online so who cares anyway”
As with most geopolitical events, the discussion can’t be driven by “[side] [good/bad]” if you want to get an accurate picture of what’s going on. Some of what comes across as “support for Russia” is a reaction to the constant westerb-liberal perspective in the media which is a mouthpiece for Ukrainian/NATO propaganda.
I don’t speak for anyone except myself (and whoever agrees with me)
The prevailing opinion that I think everyone here can get onboard with is the classic “no war, but class war”. The Ukrainian conflict is not a class war, as you’ve pointed out, and we oppose the continuation of the conflict wholly and as soon as possible (but we are just a meme website, who cares anyway?). If you approach from that perspective it is difficult not to see that this is largely a result of the US (and friends) meddling in affairs it has no business in, and causing an absolute atrocity, not Putin doing a territory grab for no particular reason or whatever.
This certainly echoes how I feel about the conflict.
the USA has been pushing nazism in Ukraine as a wedge against USSR and later Russia since 1953 and couped it in 2014
start here https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/02/the-buildup-to-war-in-ukraine-february-13-2022.html series continues to Feb 22nd
on the meaning of critical support:
A Marxist understanding of capitalism leads to anti-imperialism. Anti-imperialism is understood by detractors as a simple rhetorical dressing over simplistic heuristics like “reflexive anti-americanism,” “history repeats itself,” and “the military-industrial complex needs contracts,” but all of these are reductive. Marxists understand that human political leadership in the imperial periphery, whether enlightened or tyrannical, will only be antagonized by empire for one single possible reason: it is getting in the way of market penetration. This is phrased succinctly by Kevin Dooley when criticizing Noam Chomsky’s support for a military alliance between the Kurds and the USA in Syria: “The difference between [Chomsky’s] position and a hard-line anti-imperialist position isn’t tactical. What he’s arguing is simply a violation of anti-imperialist principles based on a fundamentally different understanding of what can drive the empire to act in the world.” [16]
The accusation that anti-imperialists are unconcerned with human rights deserves a sharp rebuke. The USA was born of slavery and genocide, dropped atomic bombs as a matter of political brinkmanship, imported Nazi scientists and installed war criminals like Klaus Barbie and Nobusuke Kishi around the world to defend and advance anti-communist positions [17], and enthusiastically supports gruesome butcherers today. Simply put, Capital has destroyed innumerable countries and murdered hundreds of millions directly and indirectly. It is precisely a concern for the rights of humans that should make one immediately skeptical of any humanitarian posturing by Capital. Anti-imperialism not only means support for the important pro-social projects of states like Cuba, Vietnam, and China; it also means critical support for non-socialist states such as Iran and Russia. Critical support acknowledges that, though instituting various indefensible policies, enemies of empire are not being antagonized because of said policies. The only thing that can drive empire to act in the world is capital accumulation.
Honestly I don’t think I’ve seen many actually “pro-Russia” people in all my time on Hexbear. Pretty much all anti-Ukraine and anti-NATO sentiment seems to get interpreted by others as ‘Russia good’, rather than ‘Russia might be best of two evils to win if this shitty war must have a victor’.
Geopolitically, since the heavily west-backed Euromaidan protests, the eastern regions of Ukraine have clearly disagreed and consistently wanted to split. Russia has spent 8 years trying to push two main demands: Stop bombing civilians in Donetsk/Luhansk and give the eastern Ukraine regions a vote on their autonomy. You could argue not Russia’s business, but they’re not super evil asks either. They’re both things Ukraine agreed to do, twice, but never did. How long does Russia stand by while Ukraine makes false promises and kills innocent ethnic Russians asking for help? And there’s no denying Ukraine has a… questionably large scale of fascism in its government.
Russia bad. Russia absolutely bad fuck them. They should not have started this war and they’re absolute dicks for it. But they and their aggression don’t exist in a vacuum - the war was reasonably avoidable. Now we should be focusing on peace, not hungrily thirsting for more war that will continue to fuck Ukraine and its innocent civilians up for decades to come. Sadly, that seems to be what a lot of the West/USA/EU/NATO want.
The war in,Ukraine has been going since 2014, the government sponsored pogroms conducted by fash paramilitaries in the donbass, and they refused to abide by Minsk 2.
For me, it’s not so much support for Russia as it’s solidarity with those hurt by Ukrainian aggression. On top of that we’re a predominantly anglophone space and the only thing we have even a remote shot at changing is the NATO problem.
