- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmit.online
Summary
A Russian presidential plane from the Kremlin’s Rossiya Special Flight Squadron visited New York and Washington, D.C., in late December, sparking speculation amid tense U.S.-Russia relations.
Moscow claimed the flight carried rotating diplomats, but its timing raises questions about Trump’s potential dealings with Vladimir Putin.
Trump has promised to end the Ukraine war in a day, alarming NATO officials who fear a deal that could harm Kyiv and alter NATO’s eastern border dynamics.
The flight highlights ongoing diplomatic maneuvering ahead of Trump’s January 20 inauguration.
Of course. That’s why I advise we provide Ukraine with a nuke and warn Russia that if they try to utilize nukes against Ukraine, then Moscow will be targeted by Ukraine themselves.
Again: MAD Theory. Deterrence.
Edit: Russians down-voting? I can only assume given the curious lack of substantive counter-arguments.
UK has stated that if Russia uses nukes against Ukraine, there will be a symmetrical response.
Edit:
And a promise is basically all the defense Ukraine has, just like they were promised both non aggression from Russia, and protection from USA, when they gave up their nukes 20 years ago.
Promises are worth zilch, just like when Hitler promised Chamberlain peace. Some things never change, especially when dealing with crazy dictators.
One would hope, but those are mere promises. When the time comes, doing is far different than saying. If we’re already committed that far and we already support Ukraine to those ends, then let’s cut out the middle man and give Ukraine such missiles themselves where they may be utilized immediately without hesitation. And of course, that’s a certainty Putin can be assured of.
I 100% agree, and as it is now, this is all the defense Ukraine has from a nuclear attack.
Don’t assume the UK leadership now is as spineless as Neville Chamberlain was (and the revisionists who claimed that what he did was a stroke of brilliance to buy time should read more history-- many contemporary commentators viewed it as the craven capitulation that it was). And they shouldn’t forget that appeasement didn’t prevent the Blitz.
I’m of Russian Jewish descent but my family has been in America since 1907.
You’re getting downvoted because most of the world thinks increasing nuclear risk is bad. Because it is!
If there were an easy way to end this conflict it would of happened by now. But I’m not interested in nuclear war and MAD only works when both sides are sane. Does anyone look sane right now on either side?!
Also if Russia uses nukes they’ll get a nato nuke response. What’s the point of putting nukes in Ukraine? We can end the whole world in like 30 minutes if we’re fucking dumb enough.
I’m just downvoting them because they’re bitching about downvoting.
Eh, sometimes I do that (bitch about downvotes). It’s not the imaginary internet points that matter, it’s the confusion about why I’m not being understood especially when whatever I’m commenting is in general agreement with the rest of the comments.
That’s a little bit different from the smug superiority being shown by the commenter in question here.
MAD doesn’t require sanity. Only rationality by each side about their own chances of survival.
Don’t mean to sound rude but the first part of your comment was kinda irrelevant
Relevant to “Russians downvoting” because it’s fucking ridiculous
Herein lies the ill-logic of your belief set. You’re not really exploring the Game Theory, here.
IF both sides are not sane (Putin), then it still stands as a credible argument to arm the sane side (Zelenskyy), for like you said, what is stopping insanity from attacking a defenseless victim? After all, through time immemorial the bully targets the defenseless, but second-guesses when they can get smacked back.
Moreover your argument only holds water under the false assumption that the insane doesn’t yet have nukes either… But in this instance they of course already do.
What we DO KNOW about authoritarian tyrants like Putin — as exemplified by his extremely long table during COVID — is that they are terrified of death and seek not to be a ruler of rubble. Thus, when Putin sees that Zelenskyy has unilateral power to launch a retaliatory strike against Moscow, then that would indeed cause even the insane psychopath to reconsider. After all, what else is lost? Absolutely nothing.
Wouldn’t a NATO membership be a similar protection without the movement and danger of arms? I can’t recall what restrictions are left for Ukraine to join. It will of course piss Putin off, but anything does, and his whole fear movement that NATO is trying to take Russian land ignores the very purpose behind NATO, a common defense against attacks and invasions. Which of course Putin doesn’t even agree they are doing even though they are actively within agreed borders. I mean, Putin’s crazy, he has a fixation on remaking the old Mother Russia.
I am amicable to this as well. I wrongfully thought that Article 5 of NATO prohibited someone engaged in an active war from joining, but that appears to be incorrect and more unwritten / traditional. The nice thing with my proposal is that Biden could, to my knowledge, unilaterally do this without requiring other NATO members to endorse.
Based on what we’ve seen of Biden throughout his entire career, he is not going to do anything bold or decisive. He’s excessively risk-averse and always falls back to weak half-measures.
Well, the biggest one is the fact they’re embroiled in war over disputed territory.
This isn’t a fucking game. Stationing nuclear weapons in Ukraine would literally lead to ww3.
So will the Russian conquest of Ukraine.
So now what?
I see a curious and complete lack of substantive response after I already elucidated with Game Theory (That you equate this to “game” suggests you don’t actually understand what Game Theory is) the options at hand.
Ergo, my point still remains wholly intact.
You apply game theory to lower stakes situations like prisoners flipping to get their sentence reduced, not the chance or nuclear war.
Edit: For the record, you sound like a complete twat that nobody wants to be around.
For the record, you still haven’t actually addressed the logic at hand. You simply keep, wrongly, suggesting there are limits where one can apply game theory when MAD of the Cold War is almost by definition textbook Game Theory.
To your Ad Hominem, honestly, I don’t particularly desire to be around most of them all that much either so it works out. I have my loved ones and I’m content. Go to your parties and drink; leave geopolitics to me I guess?
Bonus history lesson:
Extremely childish and bullying.
I can guarantee by your edit, that your personality is absolute garbage and more likely than not, people don’t want to be around you. You’re probably not even aware of it because of your own narcissism.
I have plenty of friends. Lol.
Neither side is sane. We have belligerent Americans and putin needs to be a strongman to hold power in his country. That’s a recipe for neither side backing down and one side (who knows which) deciding nukes are a good solution.
Biden isn’t running america and probably hasn’t been for some time because he’s too demented but rather his unelected mystery team of advisors are running the place. All of whom I’m sure are handsomely paid by the “defense” industry.
Trumps coming in and well… trump is trump. Obviously not sane either. Complete narcissist. Anybody with more money than him who’s willing to massage his ego will have his attention and support.
Ukraine is a pawn. Zelenskyy doesn’t matter at all. This is a nato Russia proxy war that might turn into the real thing if we don’t find an off ramp soon.
and:
Let me just stop you there. I’m not interested in deep state qnon conspiracy theory lizard people arguments. These are literal Kremlin talking-points.
Get the fuck out, Putin apologist. I have no room for entertaining MuH BoTh SideS bullshit.
LMFAO I’m the furthest thing from qanon
Victoria neuland under the Obama administration (and I believe subversively as in not necessarily Obama approved which would explain his actions after) orchestrated the maiden revolution which led to the overthrow of the pro Russian leader and the installment of a pro nato leader. When Russia went after crimea in the subsequent power vacuum Obama refused to get involved because he knew where it would lead to - eventual nuclear confrontation. And now we are here, even closer to nuclear confrontation.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Russia decided to move under compromised and weak biden.
If you don’t think putin, the unknown people standing in for biden, and trump who’s about to come into power are all insane and not to be trusted, I don’t know what the fuck to tell you.
As for Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians, of course they have the right and duty to defend themselves from Russian aggression. When I say Zelenskyy doesn’t matter, it’s because Ukraine is a pawn full of valuable natural resources that the two major powers are fighting for influence over. How do you not see that!
How do you think nukes work that one can just be provided to them? And how do you feel they will implement MAD with only a single nuke?
How do you think nukes work that this is obstacle that cannot be overcome by two innovative powers?
Are you familiar with the Sentinel ICBM launched by vertical-erected launchers?
It’s not black-and-white, but rather a gradient: One threatening Moscow is better than none; more is better than one.
Now let me ask you: Why (if this is indeed your belief) do you think such a proposed scenario invites more risk than the current scenario Ukraine is in now while unarmed? Moreover do you believe Russia would have invaded Ukraine if Ukraine did not adhere to the Budapest Memorandum?
I think putting a US nuclear weapon into another country’s hands has the potential to make US defense much weaker. What if the weapon (and more importantly all of the training materials and intelligence regarding the system) fell into Russian hands?
I would not oppose Ukraine having its own nuclear program, but what you are proposing is a non-starter for more reasons than I can count.
Personally I don’t think there’s too much to really glean that Russia doesn’t already have and know regarding our nuclear ICBMs. I’d argue the patriot missile system or especially Aegis defense system are far more valuable secrets — the former already being in Ukraine. After all, both nations know how to build ICBMs, MIRVs, and nuclear warheads. Interception thereof is another matter.
I’d be open to Biden providing the recipe and supplies for Ukraine to build their own, but the immediate need to have one now before Trump assumes office puts a time crunch on this.
Ukrainian lives are on the line. I simply do not want Ukraine to be defenseless against an emboldened Russia for the next 4 years without having a deterrent.
Best of luck to you.
Numerous sources suggest it has been in consideration by the Biden camp since mid November. I suppose we’ll see.