Question is in the title. Where can I find information about gay and trans rights in the Soviet Union? Or if anyone would be able to share what they know. I understand it was decriminalized in 1917, but that’s about it.

I suppose sources about modern China and LGBTQ would be nice as well, post revolution and current.

Very hard to find trustworthy sources.

  • Ratto@lemmygrad.ml
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    2 years ago

    I haven’t got any sources to hand but since nobodies commented I’ll give a quick run down of my understanding. (Anyone with a better understanding by all means correct anything I’ve misunderstood)

    TAKE THIS WITH A HUGE PINCH OF SALT

    Lenin decriminalised it, stalin recriminalised it due to a misunderstanding that it was linked to pedophilia (that old reactionary chesnut) but take that with a pinch of salt as that’s just what I’ve heard.

    I’ve also heard that the Russian orthodox Church which gained power slowly over the years was a contributing factor in the continued bad takes on lgbtqi+ rights.

    However it’s important to remember that the GDR had insanely progressive lgbtqi+ and women’s rights so that would contrast that narrative which makes me think the idea that the Soviet Union was homophobic is misrepresented.

    In terms of china under Mao they had quite Conservative views which were absolutely exported to them as a result of colonialism and tracked throughout the revolution until after Mao and the gang of 4. However this changed due to the reforms brought in post Tianamen Square protests.

    From what I’ve heard from comrades China are constantly improving and given that modern China hasn’t had the same amount of time or privilege afforded to them as say a lot of western capitalist countries to develop regarding social issues they’ve progressed much quicker in terms of acceptance.

    There’s trans clinics to facilitate care of trans youth, their version of Oprah is a trans women. They are making huge strides that are forgotten or overlooked because of propaganda by the west.

    Another thing I’ve heard is that in Chinese culture parents are usually not bothered about other people being lgbtqi+ (any more than western parents) but don’t like the idea of their kids being queer. This is identical to Britain in the 90s and even now so I think it’s unfair to characterise china as somehow more regressive in regards to lgbtqi+ rights. What I think is fair to say is that they still have a way to go in terms of wider acceptance and changing attitudes but that can’t happen overnight and by that metric so do all western countries.

    I think a huge part of the propaganda around lgbtqi+ issues is that the west are somehow super progressive and accepting because we have more public representation and pride etc but that ignores the systemic bigotry lgbtqi+ people face in e.g. the UK today.

    Rampant transphobia, politicians demonising and blaming lgbtqi+ for monkey pox is a recent one, queer people still being assaulted on public transport, intersex kids being forced into surgery without a choice, the refusal to recognise Non-Binary in medicine. The west is no more progressive, we just shout about it more as a way to present ourselves as progressive and allies to the queer community because it aids in the demonisation of other countries.

    Obviously this is a lot of “what I’ve heard” from people on lemmygrad and irl so again don’t take this as gospel but I think for people (not you, mostly western leftists) to characterise either the soviet Union or China as somehow more homophobic than the west is ignorant and misinformed. Hell Churchill had Alan Turning (the man who cracked the enigma code and saved the UK from the nazis) chemically castrated against his will for being gay which led to his suicide and the British police with George Orwells help rounded up gays and communists sooooo 🤷

    Edit: oh and also UK and American doctors categorising AIDS as a gay only disease in the 80s (GRIDs = gay related immuno deficiency) which shows the bigotry and arrogance of the medical systems in Western countries. Something both soviet and Chinese doctors have not done as far as i’m aware.

    • Giyuu@lemmygrad.mlOP
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      2 years ago

      Thanks so much comrade. This is a great starting point for me to have a more detailed search into these topics, since any cursory search on Google or anything really will give you a wall of blatant sino-russophobia.

      Just a quick question here - do we know if the homophobia in modern China is rooted mostly in its colonial history, or is it possible that some of that is derived from its Imperial (by this I mean the dynastic, pre colonial) era?

      Seems like modern China is doing well with growing their support for these communities, and I wonder if that potential distinction in the sources of homophobia/transphobia (colonial vs dynastic) would play into how they approach these issues, if it all. But regardless of the source of it, it seems clear these conservative views are being abandoned.

      • Ratto@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 years ago

        Yeah Google these days may as well just mask off and admit its another wing of the western propaganda arms at this point.

        Interestingly I’ve actually heard that the emperor regularly had male and female courtesans back in the day. Whether this absolves China of any homophobia is difficult to say as history has shown us around the world that the rich has the privilege to engage in activities outside of the established status quo at least in the west. Whether this applies to China in this period is something I can’t confirm 😔 however it does make me think a lot of the more socially Conservative values came from colonialism and possibly the views of others of the time.

      • cayde6ml@lemmygrad.ml
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        2 years ago

        From what I’ve read, LGBT people were treated tolerated and even treated very well during many parts of the Imperial Chinese eras, and many princes or rulers were themselves gay.