“progressive” liberals are people who are moved by injustice more than by defending private property.
I completely agree with your categorization of progressive liberals which is why i said the progressive movement doesn’t strike me as caring too much about private property. Except if it means more people gain rights like you said.
Oh sure, I see what you mean. I agree that “defending private property” isn’t exactly a progressive slogan, but it boils down to a difference in strategy maybe? Socialists advocate a radical, revolutionary transformation; progressive libs see the system as sort of neutral and behaving badly, which can be fixed with reforms. So right there at the last second, in theory, the progressive liberals might resist revolutionary change. But in the throes of revolutionary change, All theory goes out and the hard cruel realities set in. We won’t know what its like until we get there. In my mind there wouldn’t really be many progressive liberals left, we would be opposing forces for, and against revolution. Middle strata tend to melt into the whole, or at least seem to, during these times.
I guess so, if there were to be a socialist revolution right now, I’d probably be in support, but it doesn’t mean I’d think it was necessary. I’m a progressive and i don’t necessarily oppose radical overhaul, i just think reform is satisfactory.
I appreciate the engagement! Sorry for any criticisms, I’m just trying to lay out a perspective that is based in Marxism but not like prejudicial against liberals (which Marx and Engels weren’t even if many of their followers are).
Damn… DSA is a big thing. Respect to you for getting your hands dirty with politics. I wish more realised that you don’t win over opponents by trying to be ideologically pure but by trying to accommodate multiple ideologies and finding common ground.
Intellectual differences stand out, and political discourse is just terrible as a rule. Thank you, I appreciate the sentiment as I work very hard to draw these ideas together. I’m just a regular worker, but political marxism provides opportunities for functioning on a very high level intellectually, and collaborate with very smart people, because we are committed to the work of it. That’s all power is really, just peoples labor captured in various forms, and having the ability to use them to achieve our best interests. And the best interest of the working class is solidarity.
And that’s why I try not to be idealist about these differences, its the work that matters most!
I completely agree with your categorization of progressive liberals which is why i said the progressive movement doesn’t strike me as caring too much about private property. Except if it means more people gain rights like you said.
Oh sure, I see what you mean. I agree that “defending private property” isn’t exactly a progressive slogan, but it boils down to a difference in strategy maybe? Socialists advocate a radical, revolutionary transformation; progressive libs see the system as sort of neutral and behaving badly, which can be fixed with reforms. So right there at the last second, in theory, the progressive liberals might resist revolutionary change. But in the throes of revolutionary change, All theory goes out and the hard cruel realities set in. We won’t know what its like until we get there. In my mind there wouldn’t really be many progressive liberals left, we would be opposing forces for, and against revolution. Middle strata tend to melt into the whole, or at least seem to, during these times.
I guess so, if there were to be a socialist revolution right now, I’d probably be in support, but it doesn’t mean I’d think it was necessary. I’m a progressive and i don’t necessarily oppose radical overhaul, i just think reform is satisfactory.
I appreciate the engagement! Sorry for any criticisms, I’m just trying to lay out a perspective that is based in Marxism but not like prejudicial against liberals (which Marx and Engels weren’t even if many of their followers are).
Don’t worry about it. You were pretty respectful compared to some others i conversed with
I’m in DSA. As a communist in a group with a lot of social democratic progressives, we have to learn to work together!
Damn… DSA is a big thing. Respect to you for getting your hands dirty with politics. I wish more realised that you don’t win over opponents by trying to be ideologically pure but by trying to accommodate multiple ideologies and finding common ground.
Intellectual differences stand out, and political discourse is just terrible as a rule. Thank you, I appreciate the sentiment as I work very hard to draw these ideas together. I’m just a regular worker, but political marxism provides opportunities for functioning on a very high level intellectually, and collaborate with very smart people, because we are committed to the work of it. That’s all power is really, just peoples labor captured in various forms, and having the ability to use them to achieve our best interests. And the best interest of the working class is solidarity.
And that’s why I try not to be idealist about these differences, its the work that matters most!