• lurch (he/him)@sh.itjust.works
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    3 days ago

    Human greed is a big problem. I vividly remember, in socialism and communism, lots of people redirected produce to each other, leading to bribes and scarcity, which encouraged more and more people to do the same. Harsh punishments had little effect. Humans are just trash.

    • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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      3 days ago

      humans are the most co-operative and empathetic species on the face of the earth. What ruined those systems were hierarchies of power.

      • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Empathetic, sure. I think bees, ants, and termites may have us beat on the cooperation aspect. Our monkey groups top out at around 150-200 individuals. Their hives are tens if not hundreds of thousands of individuals working together.

      • Pennomi@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Hoo boy, that’s a strong claim. I’d like to believe it but I have a hard time believing that, for example, ants aren’t better at cooperation.

      • earphone843@sh.itjust.works
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        2 days ago

        Humans have the capacity to be that, but all you have to do is look at the entirety of human history to know that we’re not really like that. It’s a nice lie that we tell ourselves.

        Hierarchies of power are an integral part of human nature and always have been. Any society that centers around empathy and cooperation will eventually be corrupted by those who only seek personal gain, and the masses will follow them.

        One thing people forget is that right now is one of the most peaceful times in human history, and it’s still a shit show of war and misery with large sections of the population actively working on making things worse

        The duality of man is our species’s Great Filter.

        • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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          2 days ago

          , but all you have to do is look at the entirety of human history to know that we’re not really like that.

          Written history is not the whole of human history. We have plenty of evidence that absent hierarchies, humans do cooperate naturally. All we need to do is get rid of capitalism and the state.

          Hierarchies of power are an integral part of human nature and always have been.

          Absolutely not. One just has to look at pre-farming societies to see the lie in that.

          • earphone843@sh.itjust.works
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            2 days ago

            You’re talking about tens thousand plus of years ago and people we only have fragmets of information about, right?

            Humans definitely aren’t the only animals who have power hierarchies, so it’s silly to assume they just spontaneously came into being when we invented writing.

            Humans are greedy selfish animals, and the ones who are truly altruistic are outliers. You seem to forget that humans are the source of all of the pain and suffering that capitalism and such cause.

            • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
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              2 days ago

              Our closest genetic neighbours, the bonobos, have no hierarchies and handle everything through sex.

              Human are inherently altruistic and cooperative , you can plainly see this every time disaster strikes

        • cqst [she/her]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          2 days ago

          Humans have the capacity to be that, but all you have to do is look at the entirety of human history to know that we’re not really like that. It’s a nice lie that we tell ourselves. Hierarchies of power are an integral part of human nature and always have been. Any society that centers around empathy and cooperation will eventually be corrupted by those who only seek personal gain, and the masses will follow them.

          Extrapolating out “human nature” from past human behavior is a form of surface level inductive reasoning that does not hold up to scrutiny. Inductive reasoning is flawed, “humans are naturally hierarchical” isn’t an argument. It’s possible to use material analysis to determine the source of hierarchy and as humans we have the ability to change our material conditions. Also ignoring anarchist projects that succeeded in horizontalism, maybe not in militarism though.

        • DragonTypeWyvern
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          2 days ago

          Meaningless shit to fill the void while furthering such apolitical takes as “wife and therefore women bad” or “Garfield is not a psyop, laugh”

          • merde alors@sh.itjust.works
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            1 day ago

            Read a book for meaning. Spend hours and days, sometimes weeks and months deepening your understanding. Opening your mind to the unfamiliar. The above strip can be written in one short paragraph and is an insult to drawing as the imagery doesn’t add anything to it.