- cross-posted to:
- ausomememes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- cross-posted to:
- ausomememes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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My uncle, from the time he was a little boy, liked nothing more than farming and gardening. He has one friend and they talk exclusively about growing stuff. He had to be forced to finish high school because all he wanted to do was wrench on a tractor. He barely talks unless it’s farming related.
He apparently takes after other men in the family, always one or two per generation, who were pretty much mute except when it came to their special interest. And they were 100% focused on their special interest.
Back in the day, it was “Uncle Bob just has those family genes. We get one of them every once in a while. He sure is a helluva good farmer.” Today he would be diagnosed with autism.
Your uncle sounds awesome.
I took one of those autism tests and I can’t remember off the top of my head what the score was but it was very high which both surprises and doesn’t surprise me. I mask extremely well according to most people I meet. Telling me “You seem normal” or even “You aren’t autistic”.
I’ve only had two people tell me “It’s obvious” ever, my mom and a single friend of mine.
But holy hell all the other autism personality/psychological aspects are like cranked up to 100 and I have a love/hate relationship with that. Hyperfocus is a double edged sword for instance. I love that I can get super into something and get really fucking good at it but I don’t love obsessing over the same thing for months to the point of it keeping me awake at night and hurting other aspects of my life because I can’t change mental direction.
It also isn’t good for social anxiety, way too much rumination on single awkward conversations MAKE IT STOP.
I have a childhood friend who was very recently diagnosed with autism. We talked a little while ago and he brought it up. My first thought was “ah, yep, that explains a lot”.
He’s still a great friend. It didn’t change anything about him, rather it helped make sense of his behaviors that we all just saw as “that’s just how [friend] is”.
Epidemic? That means it’s a contagious disease, how do I spread my autism to others? By biting them? (If you ask: I consider some vampires “autism-coded”, and I might be making a game with even more autism coded vampires)
I’m out of the loop here. Could someone ad some context for me? What’s this about?
There is an incorrect belief that autism is on the rise and that it must be caused by something, but in reality we are just getting better at identifying it and diagnosing people correctly. So it’s not that there is an autism epidemic, we’re just discovering that it’s less rare of a condition than previously assumed.
So… someone went through a great deal of trouble to share this. Why? I’m confused. What is the message and the audience? Is there something I am supposed to do?
One example is anti-vaxxers claiming vaccines are causing the increase in autism. When challenged, one possible response they parrot is “well then what is the cause?”. The message is that there isn’t a cause because there isn’t an increase in the first place
The message is correcting a misconception utilizing a concept most people would understand better. It isn’t a call to action, just informational.
Autism
I just want to take the moment to say, nice to have you all around, especially if you are different. Thanks for enjoying the shit that I don’t. And thanks for sharing my love for something for a different reason. Thanks for showing me a different world.
Also If everyone was like me, my girlfriend wouldn’t be who she is, but ignoring that, I would have a lot of competition and it would be really boring for all of us. Wtf do you talk about if we all would be the same? I would hate you all, and consequently myself. Thanks for being different, seriously.
I will argue that the mild part of the autism spectrum, what we call functional autism, is not a mental illness, not a disorder.
It’s like being left handed, not the most common thing, it can cause troubles in a world made for right handed people, specially if being left handed is not accepted. But by itself is just another way of being just as “healthy” and “normal” as being right handed.
I think this is an open debate. Some folks prefer it being considered an illness because they want diagnosis and treatment. Others, like me, just love to be this way, and there’s nothing I think is wrong with me. The only problem is that the world is not accommodated for people like me, just like it wasn’t accommodated for left-handed people not so long ago. But as soon as it’s 100% accepted as something normal I don’t see it causing any trouble, so if there’s no harm there’s no illness we can talk about.
Hell, I’d even go so far as to say it might not be worth a specific categorization, that everyone is a bit different and we don’t need to pigeonhole every state of reasonably normal into little categories. Ever since Asperger’s was popularized, we had a big chunk of people that are not especially far from normal latching onto this.
If it doesn’t need particularly special treatment/accommodation, then it’s not really worth a category. If someone feels like not dealing with people, needing a bit of a break from it, then that shouldn’t need to be correlated to a condition. By the same token, it can’t be an excuse for being unreasonable to others when you are perfectly capable of being reasonable, you just don’t like doing so. If you misread someone’s non-verbal cues, whether or not you have a “condition”, people should understand that’s just a possibility of everyday life.
Absolutely! In fact, I’d argue that this is true for many conditions that we treat as disabilities, like dyslexia (which is rarely disabling) and the aforementioned autism. Both of these conditions have disadvantages and advantages. The situation is not black and white; simply because society was designed one way, does not mean that everyone who does not perfectly fit in is disabled or has a illness.
What’s an advantage of dyslexia?
Too much to cover in a comment! Here’s a good book on the subject: https://www.dyslexicadvantage.org/
Edit: wait, that may be the wrong link. Here’s the book I meant: https://www.amazon.com/Dyslexic-Advantage-Unlocking-Hidden-Potential/dp/0452297923 (sorry for using an Amazon link)
You could give one or two examples before the ad.
I was short on time but wanted to recommend a book that drastically changed my life and improved my mental health. I have no moral issues recommending it; one can always look up a summary, or easily read it free of cost using shadow libraries (not that I recommend that).
However, I will humor you, and include a short summary here:
- better memory for stories
- better ability to think three dimensionally
- better ability to think dynamically (changing or uncertain variables)
- and some others I can’t remember off the top of my head.
Hope this helps.
The tldr for this is Neurodiversity
Almost all disabilities exist only within the context of a culture. They are a human applied label.
I recon most disabled people can do more advanced complex tasks than any animal/pet. Yet we do don’t think of our pets as disabled.
We are all born with a useless appendix, which can potentially burst and kill us. If someone was born without. Would we all have a disability compared to them.
Someone with only one arm is considered disabled, extra fingers? If its not the default it’s considered disabled.
Now imagine a humanoid alien race with only 1 arm and a hand with 6 fingers. And imagine what their keyboards may look like. A normal human in their society would be considered disabled. Not because you cant use the keyboard but because you would struggle using a tool not designed for you.
Now the reason why you still want a diagnosis even when you agree with the above is simple. Society has not evolved this perspective. We can accommodate almost all disabilities but they key to getting that help is by first bureaucratically “registering” yourself as disabled by a medical professional.
Real quick the appendix might have an evolutionary function. When you have a gut infection and your intestine flushes out everything (good and bad bacteria), the appendix might be a cache for good bacteria that avoids both the infection and flushing. The good bacteria then repopulate your gut from your appendix.
I disagree on the last paragraph. Not so long ago helping disabled people was an obvious thing to do in our societies. I’m not saying it was easy for them or that it always worked. But in the last 70 years our societies changed to remove any help that wasn’t justified. The reason was simply to save money.
Now you must justify that you are different and this difference warrant a different treatment. Because the society became intolerant to difference.
Might be a different comment in the chain where i mentioned i don’t agree with this either but if i want the accommodation today then thats my reality.
I am a firm supporter of moving to a needs first society, not because i have a plan to make things sustainable but because the current system where we sell human survival to corporate greed isn’t doing us many favors.
100% the individual conditions make us different but the challenges and obstacles to everyday life that some different people may face originate on the social environment they exist in, not on the individual. If the society and environment change to accommodate for greater diversity then the person can more easily overcome the disability.
There is no “but” that is what i said in different words.
The but wasn’t referring to your comment. I agree with you. Was just expanding on the concept that disability lies in society, not the person.
We din’t need a register of left handed people to start making left handed scissors.
I think society can accommodate without the need for medicalize it. That’s the difference I wanted to make, an illness need to be medicalized. A different way of being does not.
For instance, my lighter skin complexion makes so I have to wear more sunscreen that people with darker complexions. But no one would think of it as something to be medicalized. It’s just “oh, I usually get burned by the sun, I better buy some sunscreen” or “oh, I’m left handed I better put my mouse in left handed mode”, or “oh, I’m gay, I’d better go find someone of my same gender to love”. Something like that. Simple, easy and widely accepted.
Forgive me for asking but are you actually left handed though?
Everywhere i go the default scissors are molded for right hand. On my job (which is very accommodating in a general sense) if you ask they have an additional shitty type which is still right handed in terms of the blades but at least the handle more symmetrical.
For computer mice, those aren’t usually very symmetrical anymore either. Especially if those extra side buttons seem useful there is exactly one on the entire market that i know. This is why the vast majority of lefties use their mouse right handed.
There have been very real situations at my job where could not accomplish a task alone because left handed tools where not available and i was just going to hurt myself. Same thing at home because left handed tools are rarely affordable but are just have to bite the bullet and hurt myself to get the job done.
Don’t even get me started on walking in class room and seeing this:
And then they complain about lefties handwritten being bad.
We are tolerated and accommodation exists but these are still fairly new. My grandpa literally got beaten the left handness out of him. We still face daily disadvantages.
About your sunscreen, i am pretty sure if you would ask a doctor they could point you to the most appropriate sunscreen. My point was not to medicalize everything but to break the illusion of the medical perspective. People have different needs and they need those needs accommodated without unnecessary hoops to jump trough.
Of course neither left handed or fair skinned is of a similar complexity as neurodivergence or autism. Many accommodation i need for my autism are outside my price range, they will only give them to me if i first proof they are required. I disagree with the system but the system is all i got to work with.
Good scissors actually work either way. Blade-wise, that is, not when it comes to moulded handles: With proper blade geometry you do not need lateral pressure from the fingers for them to cut instead of passing each other, and even the exact “wrong” type of lateral pressure works fine. Scissor blades should only ever be loose when the scissors are opened impractically far to cut with. Don’t need to be expensive, only need to be not cheap.
Those chairs should be outlawed for a whole lot of reasons, not just that they’re ignoring lefties.
Note on handwriting, btw: Ball points are a bad habit if you want to develop proper technique, it’s very easy to use too much force, cramp up, etc, even without noticing. Over here kids write with pencils until they have the dexterity to move on to fountain pens: Breaking a pencil tip and having to resharpen is just the right amount of annoying to develop good habits.
A note in left-handedness:
In primary school, I first learned to write with a pencil and then with a fountainpen, as you describe (I grew up in Europe). This has made no difference to my experience with writing whatsoever, because our <insert strong swear word> language/cursive/alphabet is designed for right-handed people. I could talk for hours on the subject, but it would involve much swearing — I will spare you the pain. Just know that we should be writing top-to-bottom instead of left to write, and should re-design our alphabet, cursive, fountain pen nibs, and how we teach lefties to write.
The problem with “symmetrical” standard scissors is that you can’t see where you are making the cut properly.
Many lefties who are like me and got used to symmetrical scissors may not even be aware properly pointing blades make it easier of an angle to see what you’re doing.
Wholeheartedly agree with this! IMO our societies have a big problem with people being different.
That’s my opinion, but I attribute this liberalism: when the society’s philosophy is to attribute 5he responsibility of anyone’s success on each self person, it means the responsability to fit in is on the person itself and not on the society. This removes the burden of inclusion from the society, the group, and make it a burden of adaptation on the person. It is a toxic societal environment.
As an argument to this point of view: making it an illness provide a justification for the person to be different, and a responsability for the society to accommodate disabled people. But the need to go to this extreme instead of simply being tolerant and accommodating any difference is both stupid (because it is a burden for both the victims and the society to hold discussions about basic needs) and a inhuman way of treating people.
Another argument to my thesis is that the “epidemic” is coincidental with societal individualism (pushed by liberalism and that rose since the end of ww2) and the decline of social structures like church and government help (because liberalism was about fighting government involvement in people’s lives).
isn’t this also, like, a tweet about queer people?
… so what you’re saying is that exoplanets cause autism!
This is stupid and you know it. Exoplanets were discovered much later. It’s Pluto that caused the autism epidemic and autistic people caused the exoplanet epidemic. Keep the causation clear.
You have the causation wrong here.
Autistic people go into astronomy, and then find more exoplanets. Therefore autism causes exoplanets!
This is technically sort of a little correct.
No. It’s obviously the space telescopes.
Are Smelloscopes ok?
You already asked that last year!
Time to blown up Pluto.
It’s the same about depression. I doubt people got “more depressed”, society have just ignored depression for almost the entirety of human history. My mother still tells me to “just be happy” like I can control brain chemicals. Literally nothing makes me happy. Petting my cat only slightly lessens my suffering. Ugh 😓
While I’m sure most of it has always been here, I would be surprised if modern technology hasn’t contributed to a spike in depression. I have more content and information than I could ever need in the palm of my hands, and yet everything I read seems to make me hate people.
Yeah in 1940 you knew wealthier people had it better but you really never saw how much better.
Nor could you easily learn how people in other countries lived.
It was way easier to have this garbage Healthcare system we have in the US back when nobody knew that other countries had it for free (potentially, I don’t know what year it was implemented in most countries but you get my point).
I don’t think I agree with this one. There’s so much about lives lived in first world countries, with all the signals and information they are bombarded with, that is almost anti-thetical to our biology. I’m certain we are more mentally unwell than people living simply, especially in the past.
I’d assume coal miners and starving peasants just had different psychological issues (mostly, I bet some got depressed anyway, especially as a secondary effect of the other issues). Like PTSD, anxiety and the like.
I wonder what the coal mines were like
Alcoholics, probably
If depression wasn’t common someone needs to explain how we have seen so much more of it as fewer people are drinking as much as they had in the past.
Uranus is still there even if no one can see it.
Just as easily applies to queerness and gender expression too. My favourite part on the these specific issues is the ignorance in the west, acting like being trans and queer is uniquely American and new.
Meanwhile South East Asia is right there…
Not about ADHD, nice. I probably have both. So many new MH illness to discover. We’re charting new territory…woooo…fuck me
Sailling the ND seas…
Historically, I think with queer/unusual behavior were simply exiled/forced into suicide if they couldn’t mask. I’m glad I live in a part of the US that isn’t a monoculture as political originalists would have it revert to. Witchburning and lynchings are for losers.
well there were lots of places where these things were actively embraced, iirc there were some quite significant muslim places where they fully recognized a third gender and even considered people belonging to it somewhat holy.
people in villages to a large extent just accepted queer people as their own category and moved on. They were tangentially aware of some people doing some unusual stuff on the sidelines, but unless it were shoved in their face they didn’t really care afaik
Something I noticed recently
The same people who quickly bemoan “everyone wants a label now” seen to be the same people who say “all kids do this like that”.
Is it psychiatrists who talk about an “autism epidemic”, or certain journalists and activists?
it’s always a variety of different actors in any social process like this. it’s not any one singular body. but if you want to speak broadly, no the “epidemic” thinking is not widely accepted in psychiatry anymore.
however the idea of modernity bringing new causes that increase the prevalence of certain mental disorders (which seems contrary to OP’s claim) is still being explored. either way, whether it’s more prevalent now or not, there’s no question that autism predates its label. well, beyond the ontological question of “is it really there if it doesn’t have a name”, which is an admittedly important question.
I would argue that psychiatry and psychology does not make this claim. if anything modern psychiatry and psychology along with autism foundations led the push to educate early childhood development associated caretakers, eg pediatricians, elementary and preschool teachers, etc for signs to look for and led to development and revision of specific screening tools throughout the 1990s that started to greatly increase the number of cases that diagnosed early on when they would’ve otherwise would’ve been considered “socially awkward” and ostracized for much of their lives without any support offered at all
Granted there are certainly professionals that reject this now. The field is diverse and you certainly have varying opinions on things. And one weird phenomenon no one saw coming is that in this day and age staunchly conservative viewpoints would be disproportionately platformed. So sometimes those dumb shitheads get a huge platform because when they soapbox on social media saying “too many kids are getting diagnosed with autism” there are forces behind that realize they can be a useful idiot to legitimize awful views, like limiting health care spending (more people diagnosed with autism means insurance companies spend more) or anti vaccination nonsense (autism always attracts the loonies). And a bit of fame will often easily go to their heads, especially if it means they can now make a decent clip of money from speaking engagements and selling books.
But remember those people don’t define the field. They are a sore on the field. The Jordan Petersons and Lisa Littmans are scum that are propped up by a propaganda network and powerful forces. They are outnumbered. That’s why their research keeps getting retracted (or in petersons case why he simply sticks to podcasts and hasn’t authored a paper since 2007), because there are more people with ethics and integrity that will call them out. At least for now, until our institutions surrounding social science are fully dismantled
It’s important to note that neither Peterson or Littman are psychiatrists.
Littman is a physician, but last I remember, she studied behavioral health and psychotherapy. Which is interesting because most doctors who have a significant interest in a field like she claims to have would have shut up a long time ago and pursued it through significant research after a couple of Ph D.s worth of work. But that doesn’t make you wealthy, it just means that the one tiny thing you researched is right. She clearly would rather have money.
Peterson is just a grifting asshole with a psychology degree. Marketing is one of the most common employers of psychologists and he just does it for his own stuff.
People of the land https://youtu.be/hYTQ7__NNDI
