I just got this popup while playing New vegas. I don’t even use chrome, i’ve switched to firefox. How can this be allowed? Also, this is Win10

    • TitanLaGrange@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      That’s what I’ve been wondering too. I keep seeing people complaining about ads, but I use Edge (and Firefox) with Bing regularly on an up-to-date Win 11 system and I’m not seeing anything like that.

      Maybe they’ve got demographic targeting that I don’t fit into or something.

    • FearTheCron@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      They usually choose a subset of customers to try UI changes on before rolling it out to everyone. This way they can estimate the general reaction before committing to it. They probably also have a dozen different layouts and text for this dialog that they are testing to see what makes people most likely to click yes. Its all just statistics to them.

  • BluesF@feddit.uk
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    2 years ago

    It’s shit like this that will eventually drive me away from windows. I was baffled when it appeared.

      • BluesF@feddit.uk
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        2 years ago

        Idk man I’m pretty busy… With… Something less tedious than installing an operating system lol

        • igorlogius@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          The penguin is patient and will welcome you when you have the fish / time.

          If you are unsure i’d personally would also advice you to start with a dual-boot setup, so you can always temporary switch back if you get frustrated with something (or are under pressure from outside forces to get something done) and dont know how yet.

          Normally when you return later with a clear head you’ll likely be able to find a solution to your problem that doesnt require you to switch the OS.

          Just a suggestion.

          Have a nice day anyways!

          • BluesF@feddit.uk
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            2 years ago

            Once upon a time I dual booted every computer I had. Not sure why I fell out of the habit really.

        • asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          You’d be surprised. Ubuntu is basically download it for free onto USB drive, plug in USB drive, start computer, choose to start Ubuntu from drive, try it out, if you like it click install, and you’re done.

          • kescusay@lemmy.world
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            2 years ago

            +1 on this recommendation. Live distros are definitely the best way to dip your toe in the Linux desktop world without accidentally wrecking your system.

        • TimeSquirrel@kbin.social
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          Something less tedious than installing an operating system lol

          Jeez. I remember 25 years ago when we reinstalled Windows every 6 months to a year or so as a matter of course. It was literally recommended to do so because of the buildup of cruft and garbage. These days, people can’t be bothered to download an iso and press a few “next” buttons.

          • BluesF@feddit.uk
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            2 years ago

            I’m not going to try and argue that I’m not being lazy, but the actual process of installing the OS is the least onerous part. Software beats it by a mile.

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      As someone who was recently driven, leave it. It’s never going to get better, only worse. And linux is only going to get better the more you understand it.

  • Lmaydev@programming.dev
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    2 years ago

    They got in trouble for setting internet explorer as the default and had to pop a prompt when you installed windows a while ago.

    I don’t think asking if you want to is illegal though. But it could be as they are using their ownership of the operating system to push you towards their other products.

  • anlumo@feddit.de
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    2 years ago

    Since the antitrust laws don’t exist any more, it’s legal, yes. If you don’t want that, you have to switch to Linux.

    • chaorace@lemmy.sdf.org
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      ┏━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━┓
      ┃                            ┃
      ┃    Is this even legal?     ┃
      ┃                            ┃
      ┃   ╭┈┈┈┈┈┈╮    ╔════════╗   ┃
      ┃   ┊europe┊    ║YESYESYE║   ┃
      ┃   ╰┈┈┈┈┈┈╯    ╚════════╝   ┃
      ┗━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━┛
      
    • Infinitus@lemmy.worldOP
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      2 years ago

      The funniest thing is that I’m from Europe, my system language isn’t English, but this popup still appeard like this.

        • 👍Maximum Derek👍@discuss.tchncs.de
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          Everything with a GUI runs POP_OS, because I like how much control I have over app windows via the keyboard. When I’m hyperfocused I like not having to take my hands off the keyboard. It has really good tiling too, but I think vanilla Gnome has mostly caught up in that department.

      • _Z1useri@sopuli.xyz
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        2 years ago

        In the same boat. and recently of all the issues that could pop up, Teams has decided to become a buggy mess. Their own software on their own OS just stops working after just one year of using the machine.

        Not to speak of all the other slowdowns and child-diseases that the thing has developed.

        Meanwhile my desktop install of Linux is nearing its 10th birthday, has all sorts of legacy configs that I never bothered to clean up, has moved drives 3 times and to a different filesystem+partitioning scheme, changed bootloader… Yet still is way less of a pain than Windows at work.

      • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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        2 years ago

        MS literally got in trouble for bundling IE with the OS 20 years ago… This is so much worse.

        If you cannot understand why people are rightfully upset… LEARN YOUR FUCKING HISTORY.

        • Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          Things were a little bit different in the late 90s though. Windows had a 97% market share and a massive deal with pretty much every computer maker to only put Windows on their pre-built machines. They had a true monopoly in a way that doesn’t exist today.

          They also made IE free and bundled with the OS when every other browser at the time you had to buy. On top of that, they made it so that windows would slow down and malfunction if you uninstalled IE, and made installing any other browser a complicated process.

          Today you can freely and easily install pretty much any browser you want. Chrome has the hugely dominant share in the the desktop browser market now, despite Edge being bundled with Windows.

          On top of that, Microsoft doesn’t have the massive stranglehold on OS market share that they used to. In the desktop space, MacOS is about 1 in 6 computers with Windows holding 71%, mostly in the enterprise sector.

          And this doesn’t even factor in that the majority of web traffic is mobile now, where Windows doesn’t even have a presence anymore.

          • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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            2 years ago

            Basically every point you’re trying to make about how MS was in the 90’s is truer today except for market share.

            Why is market share such a critical point when we’re suffering from WORSE problems?

          • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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            2 years ago

            They had to separate it you numpty. They literally DID get in trouble because it was illegal. How are you seriously missing this detail?

              • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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                2 years ago

                Way to completely and utterly miss the entire point of ethics. Does it HAVE to be illegal for it to be bad when it is WORSE than what they’ve already gotten in trouble for in the past? Why must I have to point at a law in order to say it shouldn’t be?

                If you even begin to hate MS, why are you defending them with piss-poor logic?

        • sfgifz@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          Those days are long gone. Else we’d see Apple and Google getting in trouble for bundling their own apps for everything on their devices.

          • hyperhopper@lemmy.ml
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            2 years ago

            People can be pissed that multiple different companies are doing things wrong at the same time. The problem is our government has lost its teeth for regulating large businesses

    • FoxBJK
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      2 years ago

      It’s not, that’s why they’re doing it.

      • DontTreadOnBigfoot@lemmy.world
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        2 years ago

        It is illegal - they’ve already been taken to court and lost over similar practices 20 years ago.

        It’s just not enforced anymore - and that’s why they’re doing it.

        • FoxBJK
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          2 years ago

          They were taken to court for bundling a previously paid product (a browser) into their OS for free.

          Asking if you want to change your search engine is not the same thing.

    • lustrum@sh.itjust.works
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      2 years ago

      Anti consumer and anti competitive. Using their position as the OS to bug the living shit out of you to use their services

      • squiblet@kbin.social
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        2 years ago

        Anticompetitive is a matter of antitrust law. Microsoft doesn’t currently have a monopoly on operating systems in the way they did 25 years ago.

        • Lmaydev@programming.dev
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          2 years ago

          Looking online in January they had a 74% share of desktops.

          Linux is certainly dominating in the cloud but that doesn’t really make much difference here.

          • avapa@lemmy.world
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            2 years ago

            74% market share for desktop OS is actually a lot less than I thought. Guess macOS had a solid comeback

            • squiblet@kbin.social
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              2 years ago

              it’s also notable that Microsoft has no realistic mobile OS of their own, and a huge amount of what used to be done on a desktop OS is now on mobile. Operating an ecommerce site for instance, 65% of the traffic is from mobile phones, even browser vs apps.

            • Lmaydev@programming.dev
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              2 years ago

              For desktop and laptop computers, Microsoft’s Windows is the most used at 69%, followed by Apple’s macOS at 17%, and Google’s ChromeOS at 3.2% (in the US up to 8.0%), and desktop Linux at 2.9%. In addition, 5% is attributed to “unknown” operating systems - which are likely forms of BSD or obscure varieties of Linux.[4]

              From Wikipedia. Not sure when the numbers are from exactly.

              Apple has been slowly growing for years. Google took a little with their Chromebooks but they never really took off. Linux continues to grow steadily but is still pretty rare in desktop environments.

                • Lmaydev@programming.dev
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                  It’s hard to find numbers but I did find this:

                  According to current data from research firm Gartner, ChromeOS’s market share dropped considerably from 2020 to 2022, with just 6.8% of the worldwide PC market in 2022

                  So seem like it has bombed since that article.

                  Your article suggest it was a boom due to lockdown. Maybe that’s faded as kids go back to school.

                • Lmaydev@programming.dev
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                  2 years ago

                  Yeah if you follow the link to the source freebsd is 0.01%

                  Linux is 3.1 and unknown is 3.7 so in all likelyhood that’s mostly Linux that they couldn’t identify.

                  Not sure how the data is collected. Often from useragents on websites I think.

      • Chozo@kbin.social
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        Anti consumer and anti competitive.

        I’m not so sure how it’s either of those things. I mean yeah, it’s annoying (especially if it’s popping up while you’re playing a game), but I don’t feel like it’s crossing either of these lines. If you click “Don’t switch”, it goes away, and it’s not changing anything without your permission. I’ve never seen it pop up again on my devices. I forget where in the settings it would be, but I seem to recall there being an option to disable suggestions like this, as well (although an argument could be made that this should be opt-in instead of opt-out).

        I know this community has a (largely justified) hate-boner for big tech companies, but not every annoyance is a crime. If anything, I’m just glad to see that they’re at least respecting the user’s consent these days; in the before times, Microsoft would just revert all your shit to what they wanted, whether you liked it or not, permission be damned. I lost track of how many WinXP updates would reinstall that Bing Bar (or MSN or whatever they called it back then) without asking me.

        Unless there’s another angle that I’m not seeing, I don’t see how this is that much of a problem. If anything, it’s a good advertisement for Linux, though.

        • Elderos@lemmings.world
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          2 years ago

          I think this sentiment come from the long history of Microsoft repeatedly breaking and then failing to address antitrust requests. At this point people just assume bas faith.

          I remember maybe a decade ago how it seemed a big deal anytime they used their OS monopoly to fuck with 3rd parties alternatives. But yeah, I don’t think every popup and annoyance is a crime. There’s a fine line they walk to still push their first-party garbage.

        • Rakn@discuss.tchncs.de
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          2 years ago

          It’s about it being annoying or not. Microsoft is in a market position where they can leverage their different departments to heavily upsell you on other services. They have an unfair advantage that shifts the entire market to their favor, thus making it hard for any competitor to keep up or even enter the market.

          E.g. they use every service / product they have to integrate Bing, they artificially limit the use of their chat bot to Microsoft Edge, they show Bing advertisements when you visit their competitors sites, they allow you to use Teams for free under certain conditions (if you already bought other products), they use their foot in the door with Microsoft Office / Windows go upsell you on Azure, …, Game Pass, …

          I can go on and on. Some of them aren’t necessarily bad on their own. Some are. It paints a pattern of what Microsoft used to be. They actively used their position to try and create market conditions that would break their competitors or make it at least hard for them to even compete. About 15 years ago a lot of folks believed Microsoft had changed and were playing fair (in certain bounds), they invested a lot into open source and were generally a more friendly company. What we are currently witnessing is them going back to their old ways of doing things. Slowly tying everything back together. Probably under the assumption that this time the governments are sleeping and not really regulating it anymore. A lot of that is happening in the somewhat non-regulated cloud market anyways.

        • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          Using a dominant market position as leverage against competitors, is per definition Anti consumer and anti competitive.

          Apart from that, they are basically hijacking a competitors product to show this, which I think if not already illegal, it absolutely should be.

        • andallthat@lemmy.world
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          2 years ago

          I’m not even remotely a legal expert and I don’t know what type of popup that is but I think the anti-competitive piece is “could Google use the same technique to push the user to switch to google search on Edge or not?”.

          If this was an ad from a web page OP had opened or from the game and if clicking “Yes” only directed the user to a site with instructions on how to switch default search engine on Chrome, then yes, obnoxious but probably fair. Google could strike a deal with the game developers to push their search engine to Edge users or buy an ad. Someone writing a new browser or search engine will probably have considerably less money than Google but could reasonably do something similar to try and gain market share.

          On the other hand, if that popup comes from Windows itself and especially if clicking “Yes” directly changes Chrome’s settings, then this is Microsoft using their ubiquitous (on desktops) OS to nudge more users to switch a competitor’s browser to their own search engine. Google, or even less a new competitor. would probably not have the same type of OS-level access to switch the settings of a different browser.

          • sfgifz@lemmy.world
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            2 years ago

            Google already does this - and has been for years - use Google Search or Gmail on a non-Google browser and it will “suggest” you use Chrome

          • Dudewitbow@lemmy.ml
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            2 years ago

            Less on edge, but google goes father actually. Google pays Mozilla to make google search the default aearch engine. You could argue thats worse then creating a notification to switch (but doesnt actually do it yet till you allow it to)

            • andallthat@lemmy.world
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              2 years ago

              I can see many many examples of how bad Microsoft and Google can be. However this one I honestly don’t understand: how’s Google supporting Mozilla’s competing product anti- competitive? Are they forcing Mozilla to do things they don’t want in return?

              I am a Firefox uaer and on every install on a new machine (or phone) I switch the default search engine to duckduckgo. But for good or for bad Google is the search engine most people use (and would use on FF too even if it wasn’t the default). I don’t think Google needs to force Firefox 3%-ish market share to use their search engine.

            • TwilightVulpine@lemmy.world
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              2 years ago

              Disagree. OS pop-ups are at a much more basic system level than going to a specific site and then it might prompt a pop-up.

              • Dudewitbow@lemmy.ml
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                2 years ago

                In the case of firefox, its not going to a specific site, it would be that way when installed. Its like saying mocrosoft should just outright overwrite the default search engine on amy browser without asking you vs asking you via popup, unless youre saying that the former is better.

                • TwilightVulpine@lemmy.world
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                  2 years ago

                  Not at all. The difference here is that Google agreed that with Mozilla themselves. They don’t overwrite the browser settings when you open Google. I agree with the sentiment that Google should have less influence and alternative search engines should get more space, but Mozilla itself, Google’s competitor, is who agreed to have their search engine as the default.

                  It also comes to mind that Microsoft, again, insists on asking you to change to Bing on Edge every update, even if you already picked a different search engine.

    • CluelessDude@lemmy.zip
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      2 years ago

      This also shows if you have Firefox, source: someone that only uses Firefox and got this message today.

  • 𝘋𝘪𝘳𝘬@lemmy.ml
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    Microsoft clearly uses dark patterns and FUD to lure you into using Bing.

    As long as they’re using legal loopholes (or downright do not care because they have enough money to pay any fines) you cannot do anything against it except not using their OS.

    • lustrum@sh.itjust.works
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      2 years ago

      I stopped using outlook entirely for this behaviour. Outlook would embed a bing search in your long press menu on android.

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        Oh God, that was so annoying! Once I realized which app had added that, I uninstalled it with alacrity. I have to use Outlook for my job, but that doesn’t mean I’ll use the mobile version ever again. And the web-based one actually works fine on mobile devices.

        • lustrum@sh.itjust.works
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          2 years ago

          Yeah absolute pisstake. I’ve moved to Proton Mail and forward any left to transfer emails and use the outlook lite app to manage it, it’s actually not that bad.

    • Haui@discuss.tchncs.de
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      2 years ago

      I mean, it depends on your design of the fines. If you ask for a days revenue per day of violation, this stuff will never happen again (since this is no mistake, it is totally fair price). A month of this and their yearly profit is in the government hand.

    • Prox@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      Ironic, because I used to use Bing (over Google) and all this kind of bullshit - especially aggressively pushing their chat bot - pushed me away (to DDG).

  • IDew@lemm.ee
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    The audacity to even ask! I ain’t even bothered by installing genuine versions of Windows anymore. All I’ll ever run is AME Windows. It’s basically Microsoft Windows but without Microsoft services. They recently changed a lot as they went from distributing ISO files to playbooks. You should definately check it out! https://ameliorated.io/

      • IDew@lemm.ee
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        2 years ago

        In mind of the developer it’s about using your brain rather than relying on a anti-virus. Basically you don’t want to download shady stuff or cracks with no verification or testing, and never open a pdf that came in the mail. But yeah, just me on my own I guess.

        • Heavybell@lemmy.world
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          There was a time when I thought like you. I had no AV until Defender became a thing, and was fine. But these days I keep hearing about more and more exploits targeting your browser, or libraries in the OS that your image viewer might be using, etc etc.

    • thethirdobject@lemmy.world
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      2 years ago

      I don’t use windows but I was curious and checked out the website, their proposition looks really interesting

      • IDew@lemm.ee
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        2 years ago

        Right? I’ve loved ever since they starting debloating ISOs and currently am on their last released ISO. Now though, with playbooks, it’s a bit more manual and also legal. Despite being in beta, it already looks and works quote well!

  • xantoxis@lemmy.world
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    2 years ago

    What company was it that lost an antitrust lawsuit again? It was something like Macrosoft? Microphone? idr