For me the only reason to drive manual was becase automats used to be less effective. With current generation, the computer with its 12 gears is much more ecological then my macho hand lovingly stroking my cars stick can ever be…
My biggest thing is that they make people pay more attention. I dont think better drivers drive stick, i think the stick makes YOU a better driver.
Less eating, drinking, phone holding, texting etc. You have to know speeds and rpms for which gears. It keeps me from speeding knowing this street is a 4th gear street. When i end up driving a auto car, i will often loook down and wonder how i got to the speed i am at, though that may also be due to the fact its not my car and im just not used to the sensation of speed.
On another note, i think on average manual trans are less prone to failure. I know alot of cars that have essentially been junked due to an auto trans problem, but a manual just needs a new clutch every one and a while. Though this might be less common on newer cars compared to 90’s and early 2000’s cars.
And with the rise of EVs auto transmission failures will be a thing of the past. Except for the few sports EVs that for some reason have a multiple gears.
Electric motors have so much torque even at low revs that a gearbox is unnecessary for most people. If you can get enough torque for a fast start in 5th, there’s no reason for the gearbox, you might as well save the extra complexity and keep the car permanently in 5th.
Combustion cars have gearboxes because they only work well at a narrow range of revs. Bicycles have more gears than cars because humans have an even narrower range of revs where they work best at.
EVs still have peak operational variables, things like heat. Having 2 gears solves the heat problems. Quicker acceleration and better efficiency. Just because it’s expensive right now doesn’t mean you won’t continue to see them on high end vehicle and start to trickle into the mid range stuff.
Why is a electric motor overheating dangerous? Surely any electric car is going to have a system to throttle itself if overheating is an issue, and it will need that with or without gears.
The fastest accelerating electric cars are single speed, presumably because it’s not worth changing gear when you only have 2 seconds.
I can see why it might be useful in specific product categories, but when it’s not helpful for price or performance or reliability, that’s going to continue to be niche. The real problem electric cars need to solve right now is cost and a gearbox isn’t helping with that.
Nobody buys a 600bhp car to have itself throttle its performance. Well nobody with half a brain which says a lot about Tesla sales.
As far as acceleration is concerned most drivers who care about performance don’t really care about 0-60 these days. It’s about 70-120 and how they perform at the upper end. Single gear EVe suck at anything above those speeds. Only the high end models are fast enough to hide it.
Also acceleration isn’t power limited. It’s traction. It’s not gear shift or power that keeps everything with normal sized tires at about 2.5.
A second or third gear in sport cars will be a thing. There are plenty of valid use cases once you make it past, “this is a boring commute appliance”.
EVs have a single reduction gear and no transmission or gear change. Most are rated for around a million miles and only require a gear oil change every few years or so.
It doesn’t make me a better driver, it’s a continual distraction. I recently switched from a manual to an automatic car and I now have far more available headspace to pay attention to the world around me.
Oh so if you are a professional juggler it would be completely valid if you keep juggling all the time while driving? Dont think the police will see ‘you just dont know how to juggle as well as I do’ as an excuse if they stop you.
Also what about eating, drinking, talking on the phone while driving? Obviously those are only distractions if you havent properly learned to eat or talk, right? Shifting is a distraction, period. It gets less distracting the more you are used to it but it is never zero. There is absolutely no reason to shift manually nowadays (except for racing obviously).
What an incredibly stupid take, none of these things have anything to do with the behavior of your car. You sound like somebody that can’t accept their own shortcomings and instead wants the world to change according to them. Or you’re mentally challenged. Either way, there’s no point in talking to you.
I dont understand how constantly having to (partially ofc) focus on shifting could get you more focused on actually driving. If anything, it takes away your attention from the road.
Shifting is just part of driving. It means you have to pay attention to speed, Rpm, and braking points. It just makes driving more engaging, which reduces distraction. It doesnt make driving easier. If anything it makes it harder. But the benefit is that it reduces complacency.
When i am driving. I am driving. Im not doing makeup, eating, messing with the radio, texting etc. Part of that is driving stick. It keeps you engaged in driving. Thats not to say its impossible to be a distracted driver in a manual, just that its easier to get distracted in an auto.
It is definitely NOT part of driving as it is not required, obviously. Dont confuse ‘a method used for driving’ with driving itself. If in the past cars were made so that you are driving upside down, people like you would argue using the exact same words. ‘its part of it’, ‘its harder so you focus more’, etc. It makes zero sense to keep an outdated distraction for the fictional benefit of reducing other distractions. The missing stick doesnt make people eat or use their phones while driving, thats what bad drivers have been doing for decades. People that care about safety try to minimize distractions, which includes shifting without doubt. You are free to use the stick, it is not banned yet and is not as big of a distration as others (mainly because of hundreds of hours of practice), but you cannot argue that it is not a distraction at all.
You said its a part of driving and makes people better drivers and it makes me angry ever time people make arguments like these. It makes no sense that adding artificial distractions to driving would give a benefit. Youre saying it can make other distractions hard enough not to be attempted but thats just because youre already partly distracted, youre even using the words ‘forced attention’. What is a distraction if not something that takes your attention? Thats like making people drive with an eyepatch so theyll look at their phones less. Maybe it would even work, I dont know, but that would make me even angrier at how stupid humans are.
Its not an artificial distraction. It has real implications on how your car works. Just because you are not shifting, doesnt mean the car does not shift. The extra control allows a user more control of the vehicle. It does require more skill and practice, but has a higher performance ceiling. There is a reason race cars dont use automatic transmissions. The best race cars dont have a clutch, but the driver is still in control of every shift.
Forced attention and distractions are different. Driving stick is more attention on the act of driving itself. Look at the research for self driving cars and expecting the drivers to pay attention. Its nearly impossible to pay attention to something that takes less interaction. Honestly, if you lack the hand eye coordination and multitasking ability to drive stick, i pray you never try to change a radio station or turn up or down the heater in your car.
It wasnt artificial before, because there was no automatic shifting. It is now that its not necessary anymore. What youre saying is the more you control about your car the better. Cars do a lot of things the driver doesnt control, why would shifting be such a special exception? Why would you automate windshield wipers if you can just pull a lever every second? Why not start finetuning oil and cooling water while driving? Those wouldnt be considered distractions if there was no way to automate them, but since there is, its not necessary to make the driver do it. Im not saying it is a huge distraction and that it is super dangerous. Looking at your navigation system while driving isnt considered a distraction, but looking at your phone is. Why? Because it is not necessary for driving, just like shifting has become unnecessary by now.
Also your point with shifting in racing is valid, but actually just for racing. In everyday driving, your goal shouldnt be maximum performance but rather efficiency, and automatic shifting is way more efficient than humans could be.
For speed control I wish every car had easy to use cruise control and speed limiting, I hate having to constantly worry I’ve crept above the limit and will get a ticket especially on long boring roads littered with speed cameras.
Imagine just being able to concentrate on what’s around you and where you’re going without needing to be endlessly worrying about engine revs, speed enforcement, and the potential cost of getting either wrong.
I drive a manual because all through the 90s a manual was a lot more reliable and cheaper to fix than an automatic. I also hated the automatic gear selection. It was always in a gear I didn’t want. I recently had a rental car which was a Ford with a 10-speed automatic and yeah they have come a long way. I’ve only ever owned manuals but I think my next car will be an auto. I hear reliability is good now.
i very recently learned how to drive. Learned manual because it is still the majority of cars on the roads here… Looking forward to the majority of the vehicles being automatic! It makes a lot more sense
For me the only reason to drive manual was becase automats used to be less effective. With current generation, the computer with its 12 gears is much more ecological then my macho hand lovingly stroking my cars stick can ever be…
My biggest thing is that they make people pay more attention. I dont think better drivers drive stick, i think the stick makes YOU a better driver.
Less eating, drinking, phone holding, texting etc. You have to know speeds and rpms for which gears. It keeps me from speeding knowing this street is a 4th gear street. When i end up driving a auto car, i will often loook down and wonder how i got to the speed i am at, though that may also be due to the fact its not my car and im just not used to the sensation of speed.
On another note, i think on average manual trans are less prone to failure. I know alot of cars that have essentially been junked due to an auto trans problem, but a manual just needs a new clutch every one and a while. Though this might be less common on newer cars compared to 90’s and early 2000’s cars.
And with the rise of EVs auto transmission failures will be a thing of the past. Except for the few sports EVs that for some reason have a multiple gears.
Do you not know how gears work? For some reason? Do you really not understand why they have more gears?
Electric motors have so much torque even at low revs that a gearbox is unnecessary for most people. If you can get enough torque for a fast start in 5th, there’s no reason for the gearbox, you might as well save the extra complexity and keep the car permanently in 5th.
Combustion cars have gearboxes because they only work well at a narrow range of revs. Bicycles have more gears than cars because humans have an even narrower range of revs where they work best at.
EVs still have peak operational variables, things like heat. Having 2 gears solves the heat problems. Quicker acceleration and better efficiency. Just because it’s expensive right now doesn’t mean you won’t continue to see them on high end vehicle and start to trickle into the mid range stuff.
Why is a electric motor overheating dangerous? Surely any electric car is going to have a system to throttle itself if overheating is an issue, and it will need that with or without gears.
The fastest accelerating electric cars are single speed, presumably because it’s not worth changing gear when you only have 2 seconds.
I can see why it might be useful in specific product categories, but when it’s not helpful for price or performance or reliability, that’s going to continue to be niche. The real problem electric cars need to solve right now is cost and a gearbox isn’t helping with that.
Nobody buys a 600bhp car to have itself throttle its performance. Well nobody with half a brain which says a lot about Tesla sales.
As far as acceleration is concerned most drivers who care about performance don’t really care about 0-60 these days. It’s about 70-120 and how they perform at the upper end. Single gear EVe suck at anything above those speeds. Only the high end models are fast enough to hide it.
Also acceleration isn’t power limited. It’s traction. It’s not gear shift or power that keeps everything with normal sized tires at about 2.5.
A second or third gear in sport cars will be a thing. There are plenty of valid use cases once you make it past, “this is a boring commute appliance”.
We do
EVs have a single reduction gear and no transmission or gear change. Most are rated for around a million miles and only require a gear oil change every few years or so.
https://www.marklines.com/en/report_all/rep1779_201811
As far as I’m aware this is still true. They’re also significantly cheaper to repair/replace if need be.
It doesn’t make me a better driver, it’s a continual distraction. I recently switched from a manual to an automatic car and I now have far more available headspace to pay attention to the world around me.
You just never properly learned it then.
Oh so if you are a professional juggler it would be completely valid if you keep juggling all the time while driving? Dont think the police will see ‘you just dont know how to juggle as well as I do’ as an excuse if they stop you.
Also what about eating, drinking, talking on the phone while driving? Obviously those are only distractions if you havent properly learned to eat or talk, right? Shifting is a distraction, period. It gets less distracting the more you are used to it but it is never zero. There is absolutely no reason to shift manually nowadays (except for racing obviously).
What an incredibly stupid take, none of these things have anything to do with the behavior of your car. You sound like somebody that can’t accept their own shortcomings and instead wants the world to change according to them. Or you’re mentally challenged. Either way, there’s no point in talking to you.
This is a very astute answer, I like it
I dont understand how constantly having to (partially ofc) focus on shifting could get you more focused on actually driving. If anything, it takes away your attention from the road.
Shifting is just part of driving. It means you have to pay attention to speed, Rpm, and braking points. It just makes driving more engaging, which reduces distraction. It doesnt make driving easier. If anything it makes it harder. But the benefit is that it reduces complacency.
When i am driving. I am driving. Im not doing makeup, eating, messing with the radio, texting etc. Part of that is driving stick. It keeps you engaged in driving. Thats not to say its impossible to be a distracted driver in a manual, just that its easier to get distracted in an auto.
It is definitely NOT part of driving as it is not required, obviously. Dont confuse ‘a method used for driving’ with driving itself. If in the past cars were made so that you are driving upside down, people like you would argue using the exact same words. ‘its part of it’, ‘its harder so you focus more’, etc. It makes zero sense to keep an outdated distraction for the fictional benefit of reducing other distractions. The missing stick doesnt make people eat or use their phones while driving, thats what bad drivers have been doing for decades. People that care about safety try to minimize distractions, which includes shifting without doubt. You are free to use the stick, it is not banned yet and is not as big of a distration as others (mainly because of hundreds of hours of practice), but you cannot argue that it is not a distraction at all.
deleted by creator
You said its a part of driving and makes people better drivers and it makes me angry ever time people make arguments like these. It makes no sense that adding artificial distractions to driving would give a benefit. Youre saying it can make other distractions hard enough not to be attempted but thats just because youre already partly distracted, youre even using the words ‘forced attention’. What is a distraction if not something that takes your attention? Thats like making people drive with an eyepatch so theyll look at their phones less. Maybe it would even work, I dont know, but that would make me even angrier at how stupid humans are.
Its not an artificial distraction. It has real implications on how your car works. Just because you are not shifting, doesnt mean the car does not shift. The extra control allows a user more control of the vehicle. It does require more skill and practice, but has a higher performance ceiling. There is a reason race cars dont use automatic transmissions. The best race cars dont have a clutch, but the driver is still in control of every shift.
Forced attention and distractions are different. Driving stick is more attention on the act of driving itself. Look at the research for self driving cars and expecting the drivers to pay attention. Its nearly impossible to pay attention to something that takes less interaction. Honestly, if you lack the hand eye coordination and multitasking ability to drive stick, i pray you never try to change a radio station or turn up or down the heater in your car.
It wasnt artificial before, because there was no automatic shifting. It is now that its not necessary anymore. What youre saying is the more you control about your car the better. Cars do a lot of things the driver doesnt control, why would shifting be such a special exception? Why would you automate windshield wipers if you can just pull a lever every second? Why not start finetuning oil and cooling water while driving? Those wouldnt be considered distractions if there was no way to automate them, but since there is, its not necessary to make the driver do it. Im not saying it is a huge distraction and that it is super dangerous. Looking at your navigation system while driving isnt considered a distraction, but looking at your phone is. Why? Because it is not necessary for driving, just like shifting has become unnecessary by now.
Also your point with shifting in racing is valid, but actually just for racing. In everyday driving, your goal shouldnt be maximum performance but rather efficiency, and automatic shifting is way more efficient than humans could be.
For speed control I wish every car had easy to use cruise control and speed limiting, I hate having to constantly worry I’ve crept above the limit and will get a ticket especially on long boring roads littered with speed cameras.
Imagine just being able to concentrate on what’s around you and where you’re going without needing to be endlessly worrying about engine revs, speed enforcement, and the potential cost of getting either wrong.
I drive a manual because all through the 90s a manual was a lot more reliable and cheaper to fix than an automatic. I also hated the automatic gear selection. It was always in a gear I didn’t want. I recently had a rental car which was a Ford with a 10-speed automatic and yeah they have come a long way. I’ve only ever owned manuals but I think my next car will be an auto. I hear reliability is good now.
i very recently learned how to drive. Learned manual because it is still the majority of cars on the roads here… Looking forward to the majority of the vehicles being automatic! It makes a lot more sense
Do you love cars stick? Are you a gay car?
8+ auto with paddles. Perfect