• rubpoll [she/her]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    If your goal is to prevent deaths, surrendering would have been the ideal yeah.

    Zelenksy tried to surrender to prevent further deaths, and Boris Johnson refused to let that meeting happen because NATO isn’t don’t using Ukranians as crash test dummies.

    • GivingEuropeASpook [they/them, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      If your goal is to prevent deaths, surrendering would have been the ideal yeah.

      This has literally never been true in any war ever. Foreign occupations rarely tend to be bloodless and I doubt a Russian one would have been an exception. At no point were any of the peace talks about Ukraine’s surrender – only renouncing it’s NATO ambitions in exchange for the withdrawal of Russian troops, as per:

      https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/05/06/boris-johnson-pressured-zelenskyy-ditch-peace-talks-russia-ukrainian-paper

      “In the weeks ahead of Johnson’s April 9 visit, high-level diplomatic talks held in Belarus and Turkey had failed to yield a diplomatic breakthrough, though reports in mid-March indicated that Russian and Ukrainian delegations “made significant progress” toward a 15-point peace deal that would involve Ukraine renouncing its NATO ambitions in exchange for the withdrawal of Moscow’s troops.”

      At no point was surrender on the table - that would have likely lead to Zelenksy’s detention and execution in the early days of the invasion.

      • PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        I don’t think Zelensky was too keen on capitulating to Vladimir Putin’s demands to destroy his country, after sending in GRU hit squads to kill him and his family multiple times at the outset of the war.

    • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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      1 year ago

      Zelenskyy tried to surrender and Boris Johnson stopped him?! Ooooookay… He maaaybe (all “unnamed” sources) expressed an opinion, which the U.K. learnt the hard way, that you cannot negotiate with dictators. There can be no “peace in our time” with dictators hellbent on destruction.

      To cast that as “Ukraine was stopped from surrendering” is just obscene … and yet another Kremlin talking point.

      • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        which the U.K. learnt the hard way, that you cannot negotiate with dictators. There can be no “peace in our time” with dictators hellbent on destruction.

        If the UK is convinced that you can’t negotiate with dictators, how does the UK keep entering into arms sales agreements with Saudi Arabia? Do the contracts just appear out of thin air at BAE?

        • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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          1 year ago

          Sigh.

          I am referencing to a dictator that is hellbent on invasion of other countries. We had plenty of relations with Russia before they decided to invade Ukraine and they were a dictatorship before. We have plenty of relationships with China now and they are a de facto dictatorship.

          • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            The Saudis used their British weapons to bomb Yemen and create one of the worst humanitarian catastrophes in recent memory. The UK sold weapons to Saudi before, during, and after the Saudi involvement in Yemen.

            Perhaps Russia should have merely bombed Ukraine to the point of starvation. Then they’d be a good dictatorship that the UK would be happy to carry out business negotiations with.

            • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Don’t be ridiculous

              Ukrainians are white

              That’s only acceptable when it’s brown, asian, or south american people who’s country you’re destroying.

            • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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              1 year ago

              What’s going on in Yemen is incredibly complicated. I’m not condoning everything Saudi Arabia is doing there, far from it, but to call it out as a good vs evil war is frankly a simpleton view. Saudi is bad there. Everyone is bad there. It’s a huge mess. But I think it’s important to recognise that the Saudis aim is to restore order in a neighbourhood country, to prevent Iranian influence from growing and to suppress violent Islamic fundamentalism.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            I am referencing to a dictator that is hellbent on invasion of other countries

            Yemen isn’t a country because it isn’t white enough for you

      • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        Russia and Ukraine may have agreed on a tentative deal to end the war in April, according to a recent piece in Foreign Affairs.

        “Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement,” wrote Fiona Hill and Angela Stent. “Russia would withdraw to its position on February 23, when it controlled part of the Donbas region and all of Crimea, and in exchange, Ukraine would promise not to seek NATO membership and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries.”

        The news highlights the impact of former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s efforts to stop negotiations, as journalist Branko Marcetic noted on Twitter. The decision to scuttle the deal coincided with Johnson’s April visit to Kyiv, during which he reportedly urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to break off talks with Russia for two key reasons: Putin cannot be negotiated with, and the West isn’t ready for the war to end.

        Foreign Affairs is a Kremlin propaganda outlet now?

            • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Considering there’s people in this thread complaining were spreading Russian propaganda by posting a press release FROM UKRAINE I’m starting to think their accusations may not be entirely in good faith.

          • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            And your sources for your beliefs are where?

            Or do only people you disagree with require sources, so that way you can keep gleefully believing whatever the fucking and spewing it everywhere you go

          • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Johnson’s April visit to Kyiv, during which he reportedly urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to break off talks with Russia

            Hmm let’s look at the source on that: Ukrainska Pravda, a Ukranian language paper headquartered in Kyiv, owned by a Ukranian investment company also headquartered in Kyiv.

            Kremlin propaganda!

            • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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              1 year ago

              Sigh.

              You do understand how propaganda works, right? It works by zooming in on molehills until they appear like mountains. So while I wouldn’t rule out that Johnson the Idiot said something unwise to Zelensky government, I also don’t automatically think that it means Zelenski was “forced to not give up”.

              • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                Sigh

                farquaad-point redditor!

                I also don’t automatically think that it means Zelenski was “forced to not give up”.

                1. Ukraine negotiates ceasefire.
                2. BJ tells Ukraine to not go through with it.
                3. Ukraine does not go through with it.

                Why else would Ukraine have reversed course if not for one of its NATO puppetmasters commanding it to? Either it’s that, or BJ making a really impassioned argument for sending a bunch of Ukranians to an early grave and Zelensky fell for it, or Zelensky just changed his mind all on his own and the timing is a pure coincidence.

              • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                You are not immune to propaganda.
                Who gives a shit what you “wouldn’t rule out” when even western media goes against you? Get your head out of your ass