Agreed with points all around, just wanted to add:
“People need to be educated, and you’re not going to change their minds by becoming hostile.”
It frankly isn’t our job to teach bigots to not be bigots. That’s on them to learn to be better people, and if they can’t, then fuck 'em.
Also, frankly, being over forty years old has taught me that not becoming hostile and trying to educated these fuckin cretins doesn’t work either, because they don’t give a fuck about anyone but themselves. They will only care about a political issue when it affects them directly, and even then, they’ll only want solutions for themselves and still act like it shouldn’t be a big deal for others.
They are not acting in good faith, so why the fuck would we waste our time teaching people who want to erase us?
“[Famous person] literally did the bare minimum to support gay people, so I doubt they’re transphobic.”
The only person who can name someone as an ally is someone from the community that needs allies.
If I am cisgender walk around calling myself an ally, even if I participate in allyship: I’m kind of an asshole.
If, on the other hand, I walk around participating in allyship, but rather, describe myself as “aspiring to be an ally,” then: Maybe, just maybe, I’ll actually do enough good works for someone in the community to think I am an ally. You don’t get fucking bonus points for being Cisgender and bare minimum not being a shitheel. Actually stand up for the trans community, or take a hike, we don’t need performative allyship.
I haven’t seen a single megastar really stand up for the trans community.
“They’re from a different time.”
Maybe they should go live in a fucking cave, then, if they can’t fucking hack it in the modern world. Fucking neanderthals.
I mean Jesus tittyfucking Christ, The Second Sex was written in Nineteen Fucking Forty-Nine. How old does the concept of gender identity need to be for these jerks to fucking accept it? They need to crack open a fucking book once in a while. The idea that they’re from a different time is a fucking joke when the concept itself is seventy-four fucking years old. (and very likely much older, just not articulated in Western literature)
It’s no one’s job to do anything. But if you want to achieve real world results you have to work with the psychology of real world humans. This isn’t a game with an even playing field, it’s real life where people that pursue truth have to work way harder than those that peddle lies.
It’s a completely understandable sentiment because it’s an inherently unfair dynamic, no argument there. But if you want to change things you have to change people and that requires acknowledging that human minds are resistant to corrections and get even more obstinate in the face of hostility. Especially when there’s a whole political movement of reactionaries that will lie about you to get their way.
Not everyone is worth the effort of course, some are too dogmatically attached to their beliefs and others are just contrarian assholes that like hurting others. But the existence of close minded assholes doesn’t mean they are the only people that exist.
This is tone deaf asf tbh. The post is in reference to Beehaw, a place with exceedingly high trans* representation, not the world at large. It’s reasonable to expect people to educate themselves pretty heckin quick in a community like this.
I think you were probably blocked for good reason, but that analysis does not mention a single thing about being obstinate in the face of hostility or aggression. In fact, the paper states “Several studies have tried to analyze components and qualities of resistance to change, but their conclusions have been, to a large extent, divergent.” So the answer is actually “We dunno” not a trans person was mean to them for good reason and now they refuse to change.
But yeah, by all means, keep tone policing and mis-representing meta-analysis
I was blocked because their insult didn’t land and they got upset. If you want to keep looking into it you’ll see, I’m referring to a real phenomenon and how it can affect the success of activism.
Honestly though blocking me for a good faith comment and providing a source kinda backs my point to be honest.
You’re missing the forrest for the trees. It doesn’t matter if people are obstinate in the face of a change in view. Nobody is denying that. The point is that it is not up to oppressed people to be nice to their oppressor. That
Does not work
Is at best tone policing
The problem isn’t the reaction to hate, the problem is the hate.
Yeah I heard at the end of World War II the Jewish people all got together and bought presents for Hitler and he was like “Oh wow, I’ve been so wrong, Jewish people are good!” (it also helped that he watched 21 Jump Street) and then he released them all and that was the end of that. /s
The idea that you can bring your oppressors around by being kind to them is some fucking stockholm syndrome shit.
Agreed with points all around, just wanted to add:
It frankly isn’t our job to teach bigots to not be bigots. That’s on them to learn to be better people, and if they can’t, then fuck 'em.
Also, frankly, being over forty years old has taught me that not becoming hostile and trying to educated these fuckin cretins doesn’t work either, because they don’t give a fuck about anyone but themselves. They will only care about a political issue when it affects them directly, and even then, they’ll only want solutions for themselves and still act like it shouldn’t be a big deal for others.
They are not acting in good faith, so why the fuck would we waste our time teaching people who want to erase us?
The only person who can name someone as an ally is someone from the community that needs allies.
If I am cisgender walk around calling myself an ally, even if I participate in allyship: I’m kind of an asshole.
If, on the other hand, I walk around participating in allyship, but rather, describe myself as “aspiring to be an ally,” then: Maybe, just maybe, I’ll actually do enough good works for someone in the community to think I am an ally. You don’t get fucking bonus points for being Cisgender and bare minimum not being a shitheel. Actually stand up for the trans community, or take a hike, we don’t need performative allyship.
I haven’t seen a single megastar really stand up for the trans community.
Maybe they should go live in a fucking cave, then, if they can’t fucking hack it in the modern world. Fucking neanderthals.
I mean Jesus tittyfucking Christ, The Second Sex was written in Nineteen Fucking Forty-Nine. How old does the concept of gender identity need to be for these jerks to fucking accept it? They need to crack open a fucking book once in a while. The idea that they’re from a different time is a fucking joke when the concept itself is seventy-four fucking years old. (and very likely much older, just not articulated in Western literature)
It’s no one’s job to do anything. But if you want to achieve real world results you have to work with the psychology of real world humans. This isn’t a game with an even playing field, it’s real life where people that pursue truth have to work way harder than those that peddle lies.
It’s a completely understandable sentiment because it’s an inherently unfair dynamic, no argument there. But if you want to change things you have to change people and that requires acknowledging that human minds are resistant to corrections and get even more obstinate in the face of hostility. Especially when there’s a whole political movement of reactionaries that will lie about you to get their way.
Not everyone is worth the effort of course, some are too dogmatically attached to their beliefs and others are just contrarian assholes that like hurting others. But the existence of close minded assholes doesn’t mean they are the only people that exist.
This is tone deaf asf tbh. The post is in reference to Beehaw, a place with exceedingly high trans* representation, not the world at large. It’s reasonable to expect people to educate themselves pretty heckin quick in a community like this.
I guess that’s fair. I went a bit too broad for the specific topic at hand. Didn’t notice it was exclusively about one server.
Sorry for derailing.
Projection much?
Actually it’s a well established psychological phenomenon:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.2466/09.02.10.CP.1.17
Got any actual response to my point or just more arrogant snark?
I think you were probably blocked for good reason, but that analysis does not mention a single thing about being obstinate in the face of hostility or aggression. In fact, the paper states “Several studies have tried to analyze components and qualities of resistance to change, but their conclusions have been, to a large extent, divergent.” So the answer is actually “We dunno” not a trans person was mean to them for good reason and now they refuse to change.
But yeah, by all means, keep tone policing and mis-representing meta-analysis
I was blocked because their insult didn’t land and they got upset. If you want to keep looking into it you’ll see, I’m referring to a real phenomenon and how it can affect the success of activism.
Honestly though blocking me for a good faith comment and providing a source kinda backs my point to be honest.
You’re missing the forrest for the trees. It doesn’t matter if people are obstinate in the face of a change in view. Nobody is denying that. The point is that it is not up to oppressed people to be nice to their oppressor. That
The problem isn’t the reaction to hate, the problem is the hate.
Yeah I heard at the end of World War II the Jewish people all got together and bought presents for Hitler and he was like “Oh wow, I’ve been so wrong, Jewish people are good!” (it also helped that he watched 21 Jump Street) and then he released them all and that was the end of that. /s
The idea that you can bring your oppressors around by being kind to them is some fucking stockholm syndrome shit.
The only ones I can think of are those who are transgender themselves, such as Lil Uzi Vert
Forever. Some will always oppose it; whether just to be jerks, or because it gives them control over someone.
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