Many on the Latte Left facilitated this new era of fascist censorship. Remember when people didn’t care that folks who were accurately assessing the situation between Ukraine and Russia were targeted and silenced?
Yep. Leftists are regularly fighting back against misinformation and carefully crafted narratives designed to make people believe lies even if said narrative isn’t expressly untrue.
But masses of anti-war activists and so-called leftists in the US have now decided that war isn’t so bad
Nope. War is still bad, which is why the invading country should stop or be made to stop if they won’t do so voluntarily.
Here’s a fun exercise. If a foreign hostile power invaded the area you live in, using an excuse that has enough elements of truth to not technically be a flat out lie, how much of that land should be given up to appease them?
It’s ok. Don’t feel obligated to answer. I’m certainly not coming back to this thread.
War is still bad, which is why the invading country should stop or be made to stop if they won’t do so voluntarily.
Well you forgot the third option: peace negotiations.
How does that work unilaterally?
Russia has grievances that could be addressed in a negotiation; the question of NATO membership for Ukraine, UN monitored referendums on whether the disputed regions want to stay in Ukraine or join Russia or become independent, a truth-and-reconcilliation to address the legitimate Nazi concerns, etc.
But y’all shit your pants whenever any of this is brought up so we’ll just fight to the last Ukrainian instead 😒
Who gives a shit about Russia’s grievances? You don’t get to invade a sovereign nation and murder its people because you dont like the way they do things in their own country. (Or at least your shouldn’t, if we lived a sane world). It wasn’t right when US did it in Iraq, it wasn’t right when Russia did it in Ukraine, and it’s certainly not right for Israel to massacre and invade Palestinian land.
If you don’t give a shit about your enemy’s grievances then you can’t expect them to negotiate. That’s how it works.
I don’t expect negotiations with Russia. They have no legitimate legs to stand on. The only acceptable solution should be full withdrawal of all forces from all Ukranian regions and severe international sanctions to cripple their economy even further. You don’t get to break into someone else’s house and then demand they negotiate with you before you leave or demand they give you one of their rooms for keeps because you don’t like who they hang out with.
Exactly
The person my neighbor hangs out with is a known serial killer that is openly hostile to me and keeps trying to set up cameras inside my house, yeah, I might try to do something about that lol
I don’t see why UN monitored referendums in the disputed regions is so unacceptable. If people want to leave or want to stay, let them decide.
Perhaps so, but the fact is that Putin has stated preconditions for negotiations that Ukraine finds unacceptable. It’s not up to me, or anybody in the U.S. government to decide, unless the Ukranian government is a group of puppets without agency. It seems that they are also suspicious of whether he would abide by the terms of a deal, considering the track record of reneging on the past security guarantee, the rhetoric of conquest among his circle, as well as attempting no diplomatic paths to resolve those issues.
unless the Ukranian government is a group of puppets without agency
You mean the government installed by a Western coup and is being propped up by unlimited aid and resources? Hmmm…
I’ve heard that accusation plenty, and believed it until I looked into it. Ukrainians in large numbers were willing to fight and die for a movement which wasn’t a coup until the president fled to Russia. They’re not puppets with no agency who can be ordered around from Washington or Brussels. As such, the popular support the government received, and still does, tends to support the idea that it’s not just a Western puppet.
And, even if it was all true, does it not speak strongly against Putin’s willingness to negotiate? He could have tried diplomacy before, but if he chose invasion because he saw Ukraine/NATO as unreliable parties, why would that change now?
He did try diplomacy before! Shortly after the war began there were talks, and then the US put the breaks on it.
Russia’s grievances are “we can’t take your land,” you are aggressively stupid if you actually think Russia is cool with peace talks that are actually realistic to what’s happened
No, Russia’s grievances are “we don’t want NATO in Ukraine” and “we don’t want armed Nazis on our border” and “we don’t believe you’re treating ethnically Russia people right” and “we believe the government that was allied with us was overthrown by Western intervention”
There’s stuff to negotiate over. If you don’t want to negotiate over those things then just admit it, stop just pretending like Russians are crazy warhungry orcs.
Oh fucking please, I know you’re not this stupid. Russia’s grievances are that putin wants to bring all of the old USSR territory back into the fold, either by literally absorbing the territory or by installing puppet states that act as a defacto Russian territory. If Russia’s main intent was to avoid NATO expansion, they wouldn’t be doing the things that have quite literally prompted countries who previously did not want to join NATO (Sweden, etc) into now pressing to join NATO as a response to Russia’s totalitarian aggression. If Russia cared about the nazis in the Wagner group enough to invade, they wouldn’t also be perpetuating mass genocide of Ukrainians during their war of aggression. If Russia thought that ethnically Russian people weren’t being treated right in another country, they wouldn’t be invading said country to move their own citizens into the region and then pretend that means the original region was ethnically Russian.
Russia’s bullshit has been so painfully blatant throughout this entire process that I refuse to believe you’re actually this dumb. The only things to negotiate is how quickly Russia and the russian citizens it planted in Ukraine after invading need to evacuate from all of Ukraine (including Crimea), and how the Russian officials, including putler, will surrender to the UN for their crimes against humanity.
Orientalism.
This is clearly going no where. I hope you’re happy this war will never end.
You lost me at “Russian Special Military Operation in Ukraine.” You can just call it what it is… an invasion.
And if you think “the left” in the US is so powerful that it could have made any kind of dent in the narratives surrounding Russia’s invasion of Ukraine I have to call bullshit.
When it comes to war, the two parties are always in agreement. There’s way too much Lockheed and friends money ensuring bombs are going to decimate foreign land for any other outcome. The two sides were in total agreement when deciding to start the Ukrainian coup in 2014. Pretty nuts how Russia gets blasted for their move, while the US overthrowing the government and installing a hand picked “president” is consistently glossed over, don’t you think?
When it comes to war, the two parties are always in agreement.
And that’s the left’s fault how?
They are one of the two sides, so they’re complicate in unnecessary war.
There is no “left” in formal, establishment politics - none. Formal establishment politics is fundamentally right-wing - therefore, blaming the actions of political establishments on any left is inane.
While you’re correct, this alt-right tard is clearly talking about US dems, liberals, and progressives. He doesn’t understand the words he’s using but we can understand his intent.
That being said, even when we focus on his intent and not the specific terms he used, he’s still an idiot parroting disinformation
Well obviously in a first past the post system there are only two options, so we have to vote for the blue war-mongers, lest the red-warmongers win. This is the narrative that is pushed every single election by many “on the left.”
The Latte Left AKA virtually all of my professional-managerial class peers, including almost all of the ones who joined the DSA. It seems they’ll never get the several Russiagates out of their heads, despite all of them having been debunked. Fuck you, Rachel Maddow.
It’s really hard to contain the snark in response to this screed. But, this is also a serious question: When you lump large numbers of people, each with their own beliefs, principles, and motivations, into a fictitious group you dub “the Latte Left,” isn’t shocking how they don’t all speak and act in a consistent manner?!
That is, when criticizing and throwing accusations of perfidy, name names and bring receipts. None of this innuendo, and absolutely no passive voice. As far as I can tell, this author isn’t talking about any real person.
I understood it to be referencing how many moves are made with unanimous consent in the Senate and the House. The fact is in the states Bernie is considered a far left socialist by most, while in Europe he’d be considered center right. This being the case, the term “Latte Left” is an attempt to demonstrate there’s no actual left option in the US. Regardless of which party someone votes for, both are war hungry and willing to sell their votes.
I’m tired after a long day of work, so I may be missing something, but…
If there’s no actual left in the U.S., then how can leftists be to blame for laying the groundwork for anything?
While in the big picture they are conservative, they still are referred to as the left in the US due to the other party being more conservative. Basically it’s conservative vs more conservative, but by classifying them as left provides the illusion of having liberal and conservative political options.
Which rather bolsters my observation that the author isn’t really talking about real people that exist, just the imaginary leftists that Republican politicians love to blame.
Bullshit. Y’all think censorship didn’t exist before?
“This wave of censorship”, but you’re right as in the big picture this is nothing new.
The loudest voices who criticize the imperial core were always silenced, all that has changed is Pax Americana has weakened too much to allow dissent from literally anyone.
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