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this is my first comment here, just wanted to say that it’s so nice to find a corner of the internet where i can be an openly vegan communist and vibe with similar ppl. I’m so tired of tiptoeing around “based” carnists that go full chud once you eat a veggie burger in front of them or ask them to not be speciesist. sorry for the mushy comment but ty yall 😭
Unfortunately we have those people here too. But yeah, the fact that like 30% of people here won’t go full chud against vegans is an improvement
OP is
thoCarnists should be baited, and when they take the bait they should be [redacted]
It’s only fair, I mean they taste really good
tbf, I only post bait
never stop bait posting
it’s true, that’s all she does! she’s a bait farmer!
Welcome, and sorry for the same kinds of comments made by supposed comrades in this thread
thanks <3 yeah it hurts to see ngl, really wish carnists would simply stop being hateful
You should post more
Me when I see a tasty looking bowl of beans
!vegan@hexbear.net welcomes u!
aww thank you!!! just subscribed!
the meme: “you’re just lazy, right?”
the comments: “how dare you call me lazy, I actually enjoy hurting others”How do you know someone’s a carnist? Don’t worry, they’ll tell you
“haha you’re vegan!!! I will eat twice as much meat!! haah” dude i just mentioned it cuz we’re going to dinner and it’s actually relevant…
you guys know there’s a such thing as humane and carbon-negative pork right?
Was about to be mad but then the image loaded
I would simply do photosynthesis
name checks out
Pretty disgusted at the carnism in this thread.
Honestly this thread is better then most, but I suspect Hexbear has a higher concentration of Vegans and people who support veganism. There’s been plenty of “Lol VEgAn BAd” post on the regular meme and shitposting lemmies, and they’re getting more popular with the influx of chuds from Reddit.
Yea it’s definitely better here than most places. I guess I just hold leftists to higher standards.
Same. Deeply grateful for the pushback on it, though.
Hexbear reverts to liberalism when it doesn’t have regular struggle sessions.
We’re gonna see Joe Biden harm reduction posts in about 6 months lol.
Are they blocked from my instance or am I too late? I can’t seem to find any comment but support for pig life
Looking at it from your side it says there’s only 67 comments but on our side there’s 169, it’s probably because on hexbear when a comment gets removed by the mods it just deletes that comment but on mainstream Lemmy (like dbzero uses) every comment after the deleted comment is also deleted with it so because you’re not on hexbear almost two thirds of the comments are hidden for you
Oh dang, would it require going through hexbear properly to see them or is it possible for an instance to change that behavior?
If you want to see all the comments, you have to go through Hexbear, but you can just click the fediverse button under any post made by a user from our instance to do that easily
Idea for a bit: a vegan Objectivist who lets the trolley hit the pig because he wasn’t going to eat the pig anyway.
We don’t have enough edgy carnists comments in here so idk guess I would murder the pig or whatever, not like it has any feelings, and my momentary enjoyment of its taste is worth more than its life. I am a good leftist btw.
Uhh my turn for edgy carnist comment
…
Have you noticed how carnist kinda sounds like Carnotaurus and Carnotaurus are rad as hell?
Gets hit by a meteor and dies 65 millions of years ago
vegan thread breaks containment
139 comments
Time for the mods to hose us all down with tofu removedant again.
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But, that does not mean that veganism is an invalid movement. Far from it. It simply means that the onus to become vegan is because it empowers a social movement that can end this horrific industry, rather than because of a individualistic consumer choice.
This is why I have a hard time morally judging my friends and family for not being vegan, but are vegan myself. Veganism is a political position, and I treat it similarly to the people I care about being . I should correct them when I can, but they are not individually terrible people for having the wrong political opinions (and, to a degree, behavior).
so much this!! it’s odd so many leftists don’t seem to understand it
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For this reason the only way we’re going to get out of this mess is a technological solution (or society collapses to the point that we forget about animal husbandry)
But many vegans here have had very antisocialist views about how we must simply eat beans and need not improve food technology (re lab grown and plant meats, helping people with certain digestive disabilities) to increase adoption of veganism.
veganism is very interesting, because i thought it was more of a diet but now I see its got a political complexity akin to an actual ideology. Many different facets of the ideas. Not all are good. I can’t wait until a day when we are free to experiment with and implement these ideas.
The worst fucking take is when vegans compare minority groups to animals. You can make an argument for veganism without sounding like a fucking fascist. I want to see admins start banning this fucked up behavior that apparently gets a pass.
Thats exactly what i mean. Its literally my only critique of the vegan arguments made, but no apparently animal husbandry is the same as genocide of trans people and the Atlantic slave trade. Saying otherwise makes you a reactionary, a bad faith arguer, and actually probably a wrecker.
It is literally so easy to argue veganism, why do you have to go with the ones that are heavily discriminatory against people you say you want to protect. Just drop it, its not helping anyone at all, if anything it hurts the credibility of the whole thing.
I mostly agree but think its strange to dismiss the individual part of it. Although a social movement is the goal being worked towards, I feel its a bit harmful to state the goal as ‘global vegan movement’ instead of ‘stop exploiting animals’ because that difference provides wiggle room to do harmful things if you don’t expect it to affect the odds of the movement succeeding, which gets yourself thinking in unhelpful utilitarian terms. Easier to get intersectional-understanding benefits of connecting veganism to other issues, and be a better voice for that movement, when you’re an abolitionist vegan who doesn’t care if what you’re doing might not be worthwhile according to an arbitrary metric.
The movement is of course the vitally necessary action to end the industry, but I’m also sick of carnist leftist friends excusing individual carnist actions because of it ‘not really changing things’, which I think is driving my thoughts here.
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I think I just couldn’t tell if you were suggesting ‘buying or not buying harmful products doesn’t make a difference’ to mean supporting carnist stuff is fine, cause it felt like an odd inclusion but I getcha now.
But yeah I was, in response, arguing the importance of still considering consumption habits in your veganism, which comes from my mechanistic worldview thinking that everything has an affect on something, so what should instead be the limiting factor for these decisions is stuff like privilege (instead of util priorities), which ends up at the same stance as you (I think). Anxiety over my political alienation making me min-max my veganism lol.
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That’s a good summary ill have to use it
Protect pigs, eat beans.
But if the train runs over those tasty tasty beans… how do you eat them?
The train is a unique culinary tool. It’s just an innovative way to make track-crushed refries. You eat them the the same way you’d eat any refried beans.
I mean, I could imagine a Popeye-like scenario where I stand to the side, the train rolls over the can and it explodes in an arc into my mouth
can someone please explain why vegans are allowed to engage in sectarian gatekeeping? Anarchists and MLs are rightly prevented from fighting about who is and isn’t a real leftist, that should extend to vegan users not saying we’re not real leftists for eating meat or using animal products.
Because the difference between anarchists and communists is one of strategy while the difference between vegans and bloodmouths is wanting to cause suffering for selfish reasons. It’s not sectarian.
And no. If you’re not following your ethics to the ultimate conclusion and still have a strain of “I deserve the exploits of others suffering” in you, then you’re not actually a leftist.
oh so Cuba, Viet Nam, China, the USSR, the DPRK, the Paris commune… all are or were vegan? funny how that bit gets left out of the history books
this is actually the dumbest response you could have made lmao
Behold the ideologically pure antinatalist clown that declares that no life should have ever existed in the past and none should exist in the future but in the mean time wants le epic bacon treats and no speed limits when big car go vroom vroom. 🤡
Instead of grappling with the actual ethics of the thing we’re supposed to defer to these ethically flawless fully realized utopian projects? Next will you say it’s okay to be homophobic and a leftist because the communist projects of the 20th century can’t be criticized?
The core of leftist beliefs that exploitation be abolished. Vegans are right.
It’s hard to argue with an ideologically pure antinatalist clown that declares that no life should have ever existed in the past and none should exist in the future but in the mean time wants le epic bacon treats and no speed limits when big car go vroom vroom. 🤡
anti-natalism is legitimately just the worst ideology out there. Just real shit-ass logic all the way down, and never sprung from coherent thoughts about consent or happiness.
When someone doesn’t like life and thinks everyone else is wrong if they do. Truly the most leftist position.
can you explain why? my understanding is that you shouldn’t have kids if you can’t guarantee them a good life essentially.
Folks used the same argument here early on during trans struggle sessions and we correctly adopted the position that to be leftist your need to be pro-trans.
Also we are obviously talking about current conditions.
Vegans aren’t a marginalized group of people, they aren’t being genocided by Evangelical fascists, full fucking stop
Trans people deserve to be considered a protected class here, vegans don’t
This is a poor analogy. Vegans are not the exploited party they are simply the ones who match their morals with actions.
Do you have any thoughts as to why the pushback has the exact same patterns?
Also yeah I’ll echo that you don’t seem to understand the very basics of what’s being discussed here so maybe you should ask yourself why you have such a strong reaction. If I were so ignorant, I would be asking questions or going to self-teach.
Veganism is not about vegans being a marginalized group.
Vegans are arguing about the oppression of animals, not themselves. Animals are being genocided, and in the most extreme way seen in history.
yeah 100%, im going to stay on the news mega from now on what the fuck are these arguments
I think the idea is that the other creatures, like animals bred in captivity for their meat, are the ones which aren’t protected. Vegans don’t seem to speak for them (as say, a liberal might for a marginalized group while denying them their voice) rather use inductive reasoning to reflect contradictions in meat-eaters and their ethics in practice, particularly around ideas of self-oriented material interest.
If we use genocide as the mass slaughter of any life (we’ll probably conveniently ignore microbes and only stick with multicellular life) rather than human life, animals bred for consumption (as well as those affected by humanity’s effect on the environment) are deliberately genocided and it’s done to some anticipation. The scale makes this far worse, other humans can be a meaningful threat and thus for the oppressor it is reasonable to eliminate them if their very existence poses a threat, as is the case in settler-colonial societies.
I don’t know why you or others might treat non-human life differently than human life, and that is what I consider to be occurring. Feel free to disagree, I would be curious to read your thoughts as it’s not a perspective I would say I understand. Three reasons for my prior comment which come to mind are 1. anthropocentrism, 2. lack of empathy and 3. solipsism. For the second there is a relevant quote which I think captures this well:
“In my work with the defendants (at the Nuremberg Trails 1945-1949) I was searching for the nature of evil and I now think I have come close to defining it. A lack of empathy. It’s the one characteristic that connects all the defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy.” — G. M. Gilbert
If instead of ‘fellow men’ you put ‘fellow creature’ I think you might understand where some of the arguments come from. Don’t get me started on eugenics and how we are more or less perfecting it with plants and domesticated animals.
“genocide as the mass slaughter of any life”
This is both not what genocide is and it also trivializes actual genocides. You’re right to call this view anthropocentric, but I’m not going to say that animal life is a 1:1 equivalency with human life. Industrial farming is fucked up I agree, and should be ended. I also agree that veganism is a good thing, better than eating meat. But overall it is not the same thing, not at all.
'm not going to say that animal life is a 1:1 equivalency with human life.
Even if cows are worth 0.0001% of a human, animal agriculture is by far the worst genocide and indeed the worst crime ever committed on Earth.
Can vegans please stop comparing minority groups to animals? Holy fuck stop being transphobic
Can carnists please stop engaging in bad-faith arguments? Holy fuck stop being speciesist
not a “carnist”, i eat vegan shit exclusively these days
Vegans see animals as someones not somethings. Maybe take out the speciesist lenses that make solidarity look like transphobia.
This thread is bringing me back to some of the fun arguments of the bad times.
I think we can be pro-vegan in the exact same way, encouraging and fostering vegan thought and talking points even if we don’t think they fit into our lives. We’re not that, but I’ve honestly thought a lot more about my relationship to meat and the ramifications of my diet due to vegan posters than I ever did before, like how trans posters made me think about my relationship with gender. There’s obviously a difference in that veganism has the ultimate goal of making everyone vegan, not all trans people want gender abolition, but if we can all think a little more vegan than we did yesterday I think that’s a good thing. More people are likely to become vegan if there’s an environment open to its discussion than if there isn’t. I’m genuinely thinking about it a bit rn, might have to do some research.
they probably ate less animal corpses than your average you.
because it makes you mad specifically
can someone explain why rentoids are allowed to engage in sectarian gatekeeping? Anarchists and MLs are rightly prevented from fighting about who is and isn’t a real leftist, that should extend to rentoid users not saying we’re not real leftists for owning an apartment building we inherited from our grandparents.
Those rent-seeking failsons did not know they would be born as rent-seeking failsons, and people economically coerced into renting didn’t have a choice either. Therefore rent-seeking is only as good or bad as being a renter until ideological purity can be attained with the unborn and their future destinies
can someone please explain why vegans are allowed to engage in sectarian gatekeeping?
That’s rich coming from an ideologically pure antinatalist that contends that no one should have existed in the past and no one should exist in the future. What kind of leftist movement can even exist with that kind of clownishness?
As a principled Posadist, I support more people existing in the past and less people existing in the future.
😍
wait this person is both an antinatalist & a carnist??? that… what the fuck?
I never liked that poster’s takes to begin with, but yes, from now on, I hold the “until ideological purity can be attained with a magic consent-seeking pre-birth device, no one should ever be born again and also industrialized animal cruelty for the sake of treats is okay until that time” take maker and their takes as clownish and worthy of dismissal.
Weird how often the loudest anti-vegans also turn out to be anti-human too.
oh this dude is the anti-natalist weirdo
this is what i get for having 3 seconds of sympathy for this guy oml
I would post ppb at a carnist apologists like you but because
I think it’s a form of animal crueltyBecause the rules specifically have a carve out for them.
Do you also need someone to explain to you why Patsoc’s don’t fall under the nonsectarian rule too? What about Va*shites? They’re real leftists, according to themselves, so not letting them run rampant here is just blatant sectarianism, you’re so right! The non-sectarianism rule should also extend to the Pro-Palestine gatekeeper users, always arrogantly telling Zionists that they’re not real leftists just because they support a racist apartheid state conducting genocide. This all makes perfect sense.
No because even if you’re a communist who organizes, reads, and helps your fellow human, you are a reactionary akin to a liberal conservative if you eat that turkey thanksgiving dinner
This but unironically. Carnism is reactionary liberal ideology which is incompatible with leftism and your cognitive dissonance will become too great to bear eventually
You going to call Fidel a reactionary? Veganism is good and something to strive for, but it’s not the ultimate marker of leftist purity.
I see the post
I see 200 comments
just an average day on hexbear
Muh multi tracking pork and bean treats hue hue hue
Sounds like we need another Dominion viewing.
JurassicWorld Dominion was shit and you wont ever make me watch it again
Carnist Catch 22, if it hits the beans then they’ll be destroyed and you’ll have to eat the pig to survive.
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