“No one is looking at us or the extent of this disaster or the crimes that we are experiencing in Gaza,” he said. Still holding his microphone, he slid off his flak jacket marked with the word PRESS and unstrapped his helmet.
“These protection jackets and helmets don’t protect us,” he said, flinging the equipment to the ground. “Nothing protects journalists. … We lose our lives for no reason.”
This is heartbreaking, I don’t know what else to say. The justification that these casualties are acceptable because “Hamas is there too” is just nonsense. If that’s the case why won’t Israel let civilians cross the border into Israel to prevent their murder?
That would humanize those whom they oppress.
I doubt Hamas was at this reporter’s house, which was singled out by Israel for an airstrike, which they then pretended to know nothing about.
You’re probably right, I’m just trying to get ahead of their typical excuse for collateral damage
It’s not even collateral damage is it? It’s the damage they intend to inflict, killing journalists who dare to show the world what Israel is doing.
Not just journalists, kill the journalist AND his entire family by waiting until he gets home and then bombing his house.
Hamas look like angels compared to israel
Idk if I’d go that far. Hamas is at least honest about it, though. They don’t try to hide the fact that they want every Jew dead. Israel will continue to genocide Palestinians while denying that the whole time.
Completely false. They want the colony of israel gone and their land back. They are not interested in ethnic cleansing like israel.
There are videos of Hamas members that invaded israel and DIDNT kill people on purpose. Many such accounts. https://youtu.be/rD7NI0tGbp8?si=uXg5km2BGCXkGosQ
Of course there are outliers of people that just want to murder, but the Hamas policy is not the murder of every colonist.
Now let’s not glorify Hamas too much and pretend they’re super nice people. They are a violent militant faction. But just like the Taliban, Hamas just want occupiers off their land. They’re not interested in going to America to kill all the non believers or any of that stupid stuff.
'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and
kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the
rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind
me, come and kill him.’ (Article 7)
'The enemies have been scheming for a long time … and have
accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money,
they took control of the world media… With their money they stirred
revolutions in various parts of the globe… They stood behind the
French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the
revolutions we hear about… With their money they formed secret
organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions -
which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies
and carry out Zionist interests… They stood behind World War I …
and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the
world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge
financial gains… There is no war going on anywhere without them
having their finger in it.’ (Article 22)
'Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet
expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have
finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they
will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out
in the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion’.’ (Article 32)
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/rD7NI0tGbp8?si=uXg5km2BGCXkGosQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I agree with the first part, not so much with the second. They’re both pretty nasty.
Makes you wonder what they do get away with
Just playing devil’s advocate, maybe it was hamas who bombed the house just to get sympathy. Hamas has shown that they don’t really care much about civilian casualties.
When you bomb 4000 children and have a “odd” recurring record of journalists dying as “collateral damage” then maybe the advocacy work could be put to better use elsewhere. Nobody has sympathy for Hamas here.
Nuke the whole world, hamas is on the planet. Killing all humans is the only way to be sure.
Shh, don’t give them ideas!
eh, just gaza
They even deported some stranded Palestinian workers to Gaza. Imagine that!
I wanna preface this with “Israel is clearly in the wrong for these attacks and civilians casualties are not an acceptable consequence of this conflict” but as others have already mentions: Israel not taking in Palestinians is very clearly because you can’t reliably filter out hamas from Palestinian civilians. That doesn’t make what their doing OK, it’s just the very obvious reason for them not doing what you’re suggesting. It doesn’t help that these continues attacks probably makes the civilians population more likely to want to retaliate against the government. “You make the monsters you want to fight” and a that.
The denial of basic necessities for human survival and the driving of civilians southward is a coordinated push to expel the populous from the Gaza Strip. They’ve attempted back channel deals to scrub Egypt’s debt for them to take in the civilians. Their “plan” to ship the expelled around the world has been leaked. People understand this, and thus, the only logical solution is for Israel to take care of these people whose lives they are shattering. They can’t leave their land or Israeli land or they won’t get it back. Whether it’s worth dying over is largely out of the Palestinians in Gaza hands for the moment.
This can’t be made someone else’s problem, because that’s exactly what Israel wants and that should make their motivations very clear.
Are you actually suggesting Israel take over Palestine and absorb the civilians populations. That’s insane. Theirs decades of hate and anguish here, Israel would need to keep the Palestinians isolated from the Israeli population for fear of retaliation and the Palestinians would live under constant observation for fear of retaliating. Israel can’t deradicalise Palestine when their a good chunk of the reason Palestinians are radicalised into hamas. The only sensible solution is egypt taking over the region and promising diplomatic responses to Israel instead of continued conflict but they don’t for the same reason: because they don’t want the radical element of hamas under their governance. In the end the only end I see is Palestinians expelling hamas or Israel wiping them out because the alternative is continued conflict forever (which i suppose is also possible, it’s been that way for years after all).
It’s not my suggestion, it very much appears to be what they are doing in Gaza. Removing their right to self determination is also not a solution. The UN is a much better force to act as interim peacekeepers. I don’t think either of us are probably going to be the ones to crack the peace nut. All that I am saying is that secondary evidence and leaks point to a future where the people of Gaza have been removed and I very much believe Israels intent is to never let them back in.
Their not taking over so much as pushing out. Taking over would be more like sending ground forces to find and eradicate all known hamas agents and then establishing an interim Israeli government in the region. The end goal here is very clearly not to take in the Palestinians as new citizens to israels government, its to damage as much of hamas as they can and put a large buffer zone between themselves to minimise the likelihood of retaliation. It’s not a takeover when you appear more than willing to wipe out whoevers already their. And I don’t see any situation where if Israel does take over they actually let Palestinians continue living there.
Don’t know what to tell you if you don’t see it. Best of luck to you!
This is also a fucking BS, sure you disapprove but you can’t even put that on the table. Right now, Israel is fabricating more than ever the so called “terrorists”, that’s why they conflate the term with resistance fighter. Don’t you fucking think it is a traumatic situation?! Bombing, displacing, cut water/electricity/food …
At the very very least, it should have been a terrestrial attack, but they are so coward and reluctant to anything not jewish (last bit is in their book), that they go freestyle and free of consequence.
I mean you can’t filter out anyone whose been radicalised from those just wanting an out. And the possible risk from mistaking it is extremely high.
Holy molly I feel dirty, suddenly. , I misread your comment, my bad. The BS argument is about “radicalization” , of course. People seeing their relatives, friends and weak (children) getting killed is just fuel for outrage and punishment…
Whether you agree with Israeli attacks or not, obviously the answer to this is because it’s impossible to filter out Hamas terrorists, which is the main thing they’re trying to prevent.
Your right, best to kill them all then. What do you agree with btw?
He agrees with the occupiers if his history serves as enough evidence
Where did you get that?
I’m not happy with what Israel is doing. But I don’t know of a better way to get rid of Hamas either. And I’m convinced that if we want a free Palestine and a working two state solution, freeing it from Hamas has to be the first step without which no sustainable situation with Israel can ever be achieved.
I’m sure this will work about as well as the US attempt to get rid of the Taliban. Or as well as any of the other instances in the past of trying to get rid of an ideological group through violence.
It doesn’t work. It makes everything worse. It radicalizes survivors and kills lots of innocent people.
Some day maybe humanity will collectively abandon these cycles of hatred and violence played out over decades. But I doubt it.
You have a point, but it’s not really the same thing and there’s a very good recent counter-example too. ISIS was effectively dealt with despite being spread out over a much larger area. Taliban won, but it had a whole huge country to work in and was nowhere near as violent as Hamas, so it had more support. Gaza is tiny in comparison, blocked on all sides and neighbors of Israel don’t want anything to do with them either, even if they don’t like Israel. There is also at least some alternative in Fatah, which didn’t lose the 2005 elections by that much.
Imo it’s clearly possible to get rid of Hamas, though I’m not making any claims about the probability that it will happen.
Mostly, I don’t really see an alternative. Some radical action needed to be taken because anything else would be interpreted as a clear proof that large terrorist attacks against civilians work, and Hamas should continue committing them. You cannot appease someone whose reason for existence is violence. And keeping Hamas sort of in check, only killing or capturing the worst terrorists, which is what was being done in the last two decades, clearly did not work either.
You don’t see any alternative to the slaying of people in a 10 to 1 ratio in what is an offensive reprisal attack? I mean Machiavelli would agree with you.
Why does “radical action” always mean “radical violence”?
“Radical action” can and should include radical kindness in which past wounds can be forgiven and a cooperative future can be built. Right now, all the violence is doing is ensuring that Hamas will be enumerated and maintained for generations by the people that Israel is considering to be sub-human and disposable. Radical violence creates radical ideologues and only ever begets further violence in the absence of total and absolute annihilation.
Radical kindness will specifically tell Hamas “yes, brutal terrorist attacks work, keep doing them”. That is unfortunately not an option. It’s also just a fantasy because it would understandably never be supported by Israeli population for this reason.
I’m interested in seeing alternative solutions that could actually work and be realistically implemented, but outside of understandable positions like “ease off with the fucking bombing and do more work on the ground” that don’t change the goal of what is being done I have not seen any.
This reads like “we don’t care about the hostages or their families. We must complete our noble work of eradication of the people we deem “hostile.” Also anyone that gets in our way is fully excusable and at fault for their own death by being around where we decide to kill.” Do you even possess empathy for anyone you don’t directly support? Wild.
If the citizens of Gaza aren’t offered anything better, why would they gamble what little they have on overthrowing the local oppressors? They don’t really have anything to gain by overthrowing Hamas and trying to do so would be putting their lives and their families at risk. If Israel and the wider international community can offer them something better than life under Hamas and the Likud, they’d be much more likely to eschew Hamas’ control.
I should have put an /s there I guess. You don’t know a better way than genocide? If the treatment kills the host then it is not in fact a cure.
If Israel wanted to kill all people in Gaza, they could just carpet bomb them without ever stepping a foot in. The only reason to do a ground invasion that will inevitably bring a ton of Israeli casualties is to reduce civilian deaths.
So less deniable war crimes?
You seem to be implying that israelis are not people or that their lives are less valuable.
Edit: you should look the definition of imply in the dictionary. responding that you didn’t say something you implied is not a valid argument.
where did I say that? Must be hard juggling a victim complex with 4000 murdered children. Oh, maybe not?
edit: K, where did I ever come close to implying any civilian life (that’s universal jackass) is less worthy or valuable. What a fucking coward, coming in and editing the original as a way to skip a response. Here’s one in return piss pants.
You’re implying that Israel is entitled to murder thousands of civilians, half of them children, and level to the ground a city that used to house over half a million people up until recently, just because its far right government that has protected people who abused Palestinians for decades doesn’t want to seek any solution other than relentless violence. One day you’ll look at yourself in the mirror and find yourself a monster.
Better way is easy: a one state solution like Israel claims it wants would be better than this. Declare everyone in Palestine an Israeli citizen, move in law enforcement in force, and arrest murderers for murder.
I agree that it would be better for the Palestinians, clearly Israeli Arabs have better lives than people in Gaza and West Bank despite also facing some discrimination, but Gazans would never agree to this (that is clear from public opinion polls done by PA institutions - for example over 70% of people in Gaza support violence against Israeli civilians), so the end result would be exactly the same is this one. You would still have an army of violent murderers hiding in tunnels with almost two decades of preparation for exactly this.
The cost of 4000 dead children perhaps.
So, you believe Israel can identify a Hamas terrorist remotely to bomb them, but can’t identify Hamas terrorists when they are at the border in person?
The people IDF is targeting are Hamas leaders or “officers”, who need to communicate a lot and sometimes even show in public, so they can be tracked with enough time. Boots on the ground soldiers are a completely different problem and Israel doesn’t even have the resources to track all of them because there are so many. How is that not obvious??
So 10,000 people have died now to kill how many? Here’s a question, what number is okay to kill? You seem to know these things so the answer should be obvious.
Apparently they can: https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-tried-to-send-fighters-to-egypt-in-ambulances-for-wounded-gazans-us-official/
Why are they murdering all those journalists then? Seems… Evil.
They weren’t journalists, they were Hamas fighters, dressed as journalists. /s
So your point being is let’s question Hamas propaganda but not IDF propaganda?
My dude has never seen a customs office or checkpoint in his life
No its obviously because Israel doesn’t care about Palestinians lol. They wouldn’t have literally any of these issues if they hadn’t been doing like 80 years worth of state sponsored occupation and murder.
You really think the people in Gaza chose to willingly leave their former homes and land to move into a military enclave?
You are extremely naive if you think that a military checkpoint would solve this problem. Egypt was not able to stop Hamas terrorists and their supplies going back and forth through the Rafah border crossing to commit acts of terror in the Sinai peninsula for example. And that was during “business as usual”, not in a situation where potentially hundreds of thousands of people would likely have to go through.
Bold of you to assume Egypt isn’t complicit in letting that happen lol.
Their military literally runs on bribery. So much so that there’s a local conspiracy there that Egypt provided Israel with all the intel during the 6 day war because they had no intention of fighting and negotiated to get Gaza off their hands in exchange for never having to worry about Israel again.
Again though, my point is that Hamas as an entity wouldn’t exist if Palestinians were considered regular citizens and not forced off from their own property.
This may be true and it would be good to consider this when deciding what to do after Hamas is gone, but it doesn’t change anything about current situation. The fact is that thinking a military checkpoint would filter out terrorists is incredibly naive, and whether Israel cares about the lives of civilians or not likely wouldn’t change this particular issue at all.
Either they’re armed and easy to identify or they’re not at which point there’s one less person to worry about shooting Israeli soldiers while their tunnel network is dismantled. I don’t see the problem.
Do you honestly not see the problem with letting out at the very least tens of thousands of people, possibly hundreds of thousands, and guarding them all well enough so that none of them can do any hostilities that can be done without smuggling arms out of Gaza (whether it’s sabotage, inciting violent protests to keep the IDF occupied or terrorist acts using weapons smuggled into Israel from elsewhere)?
It’d be hard sure. Still better than bombing the spots they directed people to and killing droves of civilians.
No, now you have two more people inspired to shoot Israeli soldiers and civilians. It’s like you don’t even understand how people’s minds actually work.
And Israel’s current strategy isn’t carrying water for Hamas recruitment right now?
Israel’s strategy over the last 70 years created Hamas and has ensured that it has continued to hold power in Gaza. I don’t know what that other commenter is thinking, but I think characterising Israel’s strategy as carrying water for Hamas recruitment is a strong understatement. They’re not just carrying water; they’re pumping it from the ground, putting it in containers, divvying it up, and carrying it as far as they’ll go. Hamas exists because of Israel, much as how Al Qaeda and ISIS exist(ed) because of the US (and allied forces) and Russia.
Why does Israel not let people leave and use its famed intelligence services to identify who the Hamas fighters are? It is looking like the Israeli government simply prefers collective punishment or even genocide.
How do you know who is Hamas and who is a civilian? It’s not like Hamas honorably sticks to identifiable uniforms in this war they started
The war has been going on since long before October.
That’s pretty clearly not true
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict
1948-2023
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israel–Hamas_war
7 October to present
You said there wasn’t a outstanding conflict going on before October. “That’s pretty clearly not true”
I provided you counter examples. Now you have evidence of the conflict activity before October.
Uhh, no. I said Hamas started this war. Which they did. On 7 Oct. Before then, there was no war. Now, there’s war. Idk what you want
I want you to understand that there are people in this conflict that see a continuation of violence since 1948 and that the situation was not “at peace” before october
Do you know Newton’s third law? If you don’t, make yourself a favour and google it
https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties 6K killed and 165K injured Palestinians in the span of 15 years. All before the 7.10.
That’s an awfully large number for a "peace” don’t you think?
If you insist.
You’re right, so let’s just declare everyone in Gaza Hamas and bomb everyone. Right? Isn’t that Israel’s current policy?
Hey, why don’t we speed things up and nuke the area. Wouldn’t that be more efficient?
Killing civilian children is not an appropriate response to terrorism.
And what, according to you, is the best response Israel could make to an unending string of terrorism?
What unending string of terrorism? Before Oct 7, when was the last Israeli killed or injured by Hamas?
But to answer your question, the best response is securing the boarder and asking yourself “what could be the motivation for these attacks?”. It’s to try and seek/broker peace.
I’d suggest reading up on the IRA and the good Friday agreement to see how a government can end an unending string of terrorism. A relentless show of force is how the US created ISIS. That’s what Israel is doing right now.
https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties - who’s the terrorist now? ELI5 the numbers of this article. I am really curious how you will justify them!
Apparently letting in the terrorists. They took the usa Democrat course in securing borders
Imagine how embarrassed this guy is to have you agreeing with him. I love it.
If they filter through the border they can’t be armed. It’d be pretty easy to take away all their arms if no one was left to guard their tunnels.
Yes, and then they hide and bide time preparing for an attack without having to cross over the border.
Too bad Israel never built the wall like murica did.
to fence in a tiny bit of land? no, far easier to subsume it.
Just mask off for you today, huh?
it’s really obvious:
in a tunnel underground? terrorist
shooting Israeli’s? terrorist
not getting the fuck out of an active war zone and pretending to be a civilian? terrorist
Should all of Ukraine abandon their land because Russia declared their land an active war zone?
If someone invades your country do you not have the right to fight back? You’re basically saying, leave or die. How does this logic not apply to the attacks of oct. 7th? Not defending said attacks, just pointing out how utterly brainless your statement is. It also sounds like approval of genocide.
Why would you let people who may or may not be criminals / terrorists into your country ? What do you think this is the usa southern border ?
Would you let random people come flooding into your house ?
*Racist bigot has entered the chat
Great way to announce yourself
The US southern border is so scary. Migrant workers enter the US every day, it’s terrible. These people are going to ruin America by looking for better lives for themselves and their families. /s
I’ve lived very close to the US/Mexico border most of my life. There aren’t any criminals and terrorists coming to live here. It’s all just people looking for better lives. The criminals smuggle drugs and people over, but they don’t move over here too often, and even if they do, it’s just to sell drugs. There are no terrorists amongst them, idk where you got that idea.
Don’t fall for right wing propaganda about the US/Mexico border.
Drugs and slaves also come over the boarder because ots open and anyone can cross.
You say there are no criminals or terrorists bit you are factually wrong.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/measuring-drug-seizures-southern-border-how-reuters-analyzed-data-2023-08-09/
Guess Reuters is lying.
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/investigations/2021/07/01/mexican-cartels-fuel-immigration-crisis-at-us-border/5290082001/
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/01/us/texas-shooting-suspect-manhunt.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/09/us/deportation-pennsylvania-fugitive-danelo-cavalcante.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/nyregion/92-year-old-woman-queens-murder.html
Stop with your fantasy and face reality.
I literally said that there are criminals. The criminals move back and forth, though. They dont typically stay here in one place for too long. Not terrorists, though. At least not often enough that terrorists should be plural.
The border isn’t open, where are you getting that idea? They use tunnels and cross occasionally patrolled territory to get across. The border is just so big and desolate that there won’t be enough manpower to guard it all, and there is so much money in the drug trade that there will always be incentive for them to figure out a way to get across. The cartels even have submarines and drones.
If we want to stop the drug smuggling and criminals from coming over, we should make a safer and regulated drug market up here and take away their incentive.
I’m just letting you know as someone who has lived in border towns, the vast majority of people coming over just want to have better lives for them and their families. Nobody is terrorized down there. Sure, heinous stuff happens that involves criminal illegal immigrants, occasionally. We have criminals who commit heinous stuff that were born here, too.
It’s not a huge problem like you are making it out to be.
I can watch videos of hundreds of people walking through open fences into this country. .
No one ever said that most people didn’t want better lives. Unfortunately they won’t find it here and while they come over people bring in drugs , weapons. Human trafficking victims and so on. The border should be fully secure and we should implement immigration policies in line woth those around in the 60s and 70s