As DarthBueller@lemmy.world less succinctly put it. Capitalism is barely a few hundred years old. It’s barely existed a fraction of human history. It’s barely older than many of the original socialist ideals. Let alone all of history. Markets and currency predate capitalism and socialism by millennia. And neither has claim to them. Despite both making use of them.
That said fuck leninists. Actual communists are pretty chill though. But leninists and capitalists are a threat to everyone. Including themselves.
That’s not entirely true. The Hudsons Bay Company, for instance, was on the stock market in the 1600s. The London Royal Exchange was built in the 1500s.
It really shouldn’t be that complex. Adam Smith, considered the Father of Capitalism, published The Wealth of Nations in 1776. So even if you argue that someone in power got a copy an implemented immediately; blaming Capitalism for things that happened before them is as backwards as blaming failures in Collectivism that happened before 1867 (Publishing of Das Kapital by Marx).
I agree with you though, we definitely need better economic education in the US and likely the rest of the West too.
Definitely in the US. I find interactions with people outside the United States tend to go a little better and they have a better understanding. But sometimes still lack in many areas. In the US, however, we tend to be pretty consistently misinformed.
The Hudson’s Bay company was a joint stock company that was listed on the stock market. I don’t know what else to tell you, it was one of the first corporations in the world.
I don’t know if you know this. But the Hudson Bay Company predates capitalism. Other systems had stocks (joint ventures), markets and money that doesn’t make them Capitalist. Specifically the Hudson Bay Company arose in a system known as Mercantilism (you should read the link).
It’s not just Society created then everything is Capitalist until Communism. Humans have tried many ways to organize both society and economy.
I know what mercantilism is. My point was that Hudson’s Bay company was a corporation, with a board of directors, investors who purchase stock, and the stock was listed on the stock market that allowed outside investors to invest in the company and to be paid in dividends from the company’s profits.
In fact, the whole setup was designed to (drum roll) raise capital from outside investors to fund the expansion of the company.
Socialists are not fans of, and often are opposed to the state. That’s the reason that a socialist state hasn’t and will never realistically exist. It’s an oxymoron. It’s got nothing to do with mixed economies. That’s just the reason exploitative authoritarians like capitalist indoctrinate people with to further their own goals.
It’s definitely does. But only because westerners especially are not properly educated on such things. It goes against the goals of the wealthy. I say that as a Westerner myself who only educated myself on it years later.
Basically I reside somewhere between social democrat and true libertarian. Left libertarian. Right libertarians reject a large chunk of libertarianism and are therefore not actually libertarians. They’re just selfish and ignorant. Basically though an end to the bourgeoisie, worker ownership of the means of production not state, and much more simplified highly flattened governing structures. That would be the base and core of socialism. As traditionally defined.
It would be 100% with capitalist as well.
As DarthBueller@lemmy.world less succinctly put it. Capitalism is barely a few hundred years old. It’s barely existed a fraction of human history. It’s barely older than many of the original socialist ideals. Let alone all of history. Markets and currency predate capitalism and socialism by millennia. And neither has claim to them. Despite both making use of them.
That said fuck leninists. Actual communists are pretty chill though. But leninists and capitalists are a threat to everyone. Including themselves.
That’s not entirely true. The Hudsons Bay Company, for instance, was on the stock market in the 1600s. The London Royal Exchange was built in the 1500s.
Yes but they were in Mercantilism systems not Capitalist ones.
It’s extremely sad how purposefully western education has failed so many people on this front. You are 100% correct.
It really shouldn’t be that complex. Adam Smith, considered the Father of Capitalism, published The Wealth of Nations in 1776. So even if you argue that someone in power got a copy an implemented immediately; blaming Capitalism for things that happened before them is as backwards as blaming failures in Collectivism that happened before 1867 (Publishing of Das Kapital by Marx).
I agree with you though, we definitely need better economic education in the US and likely the rest of the West too.
Definitely in the US. I find interactions with people outside the United States tend to go a little better and they have a better understanding. But sometimes still lack in many areas. In the US, however, we tend to be pretty consistently misinformed.
The Hudson’s Bay company was a joint stock company that was listed on the stock market. I don’t know what else to tell you, it was one of the first corporations in the world.
I don’t know if you know this. But the Hudson Bay Company predates capitalism. Other systems had stocks (joint ventures), markets and money that doesn’t make them Capitalist. Specifically the Hudson Bay Company arose in a system known as Mercantilism (you should read the link).
It’s not just Society created then everything is Capitalist until Communism. Humans have tried many ways to organize both society and economy.
I know what mercantilism is. My point was that Hudson’s Bay company was a corporation, with a board of directors, investors who purchase stock, and the stock was listed on the stock market that allowed outside investors to invest in the company and to be paid in dividends from the company’s profits.
In fact, the whole setup was designed to (drum roll) raise capital from outside investors to fund the expansion of the company.
Just as a true socialist country has never existed, a true capitalist country has never existed. Economies are always mixed.
Socialists are not fans of, and often are opposed to the state. That’s the reason that a socialist state hasn’t and will never realistically exist. It’s an oxymoron. It’s got nothing to do with mixed economies. That’s just the reason exploitative authoritarians like capitalist indoctrinate people with to further their own goals.
How do you define socialism? Because I think it contradicts with how I (and I think most others) would
It’s definitely does. But only because westerners especially are not properly educated on such things. It goes against the goals of the wealthy. I say that as a Westerner myself who only educated myself on it years later.
Basically I reside somewhere between social democrat and true libertarian. Left libertarian. Right libertarians reject a large chunk of libertarianism and are therefore not actually libertarians. They’re just selfish and ignorant. Basically though an end to the bourgeoisie, worker ownership of the means of production not state, and much more simplified highly flattened governing structures. That would be the base and core of socialism. As traditionally defined.