This is exciting news, I can’t wait to be able to sideloads the apps I want without using the Apple one. Having this on my Pixel (for YEARS AND YEARS) has been amazing.
It’s my phone, I bought it with my own money.
If side loading creates security issues, I don’t want it.
if or when side loading comes to iPhone I bet we will see a new Cydia store
Why sideload? It’s safer with apple gate keeping all the nasty shit and malpractices.
If apps are offered on both App Store and 3rd party app store, I see no problem.
It’s only when developers start pulling their apps out of the App Store and exclusively into their own app stores that it begins to crack. Hear me out.
Sideloading is a niche setting for the technologically literate. The average consumer downloads apps from either the App Store or the Play Store, because this is the most convenient and easiest to understand.
We don’t have a Meta Store on Android because there’s no incentive for Zuck to build one. Why? Because only Android allows sideloading, they have to go through the App Store on iOS. It will be a terrible user experience on Android if they pull their apps from the Play Store and onto the Meta Store exclusively, and probably push some people to buy iPhones instead.
But if we start allowing 3rd party app stores on iPhone, there’s now a huge incentive. They can make a Meta Store and put FB, Insta, WhatsApp, Oculus app, etc. on it, and pull it out of both App Store and Play Store.
Now, Meta can say, whichever phone you buy, you’ll still need to download the Meta Store.
I still don’t see how Apple won’t force a smaller fee through 3rd party app stores, as they did in [the Belgium ruling] (https://9to5mac.com/2022/02/04/apple-will-charge-27-commission-for-purchases-made-using-alternative-payment-systems-in-the-netherlands/) where 3rd party apps using their own payment processor had to pay Apple 27% fee.
Oh god, i would hate that.
This might be the first legitimate reason I’ve heard to be against side loading. Something like this seems incredibly plausible.
Except every single phone from a major manufacturer comes bundled with Facebook, Instagram and Messenger pre-installed.
They will absolutely never trade that for making their own store.
Except every single phone from a major manufacturer comes bundled with Facebook, Instagram and Messenger pre-installed.
Literally not what happened in my Samsung, Xiaomi, Realme, Pixel, Asus and Vivo. (yes I have phones from all of those vendors lol).
Technically, they could do that now already. It would just be a single “Meta app” available in all stores, which has in-app purchases for extra features, such as FB, Insta, WhatsApp, Oculus, etc.
They didn’t do it in the last 5 years, so there isn’t really a reason to think that sidloading is the one thing that is preventing them from doing it now.
The way you explained it sounds like you open the “Meta app” and inside, you have tabs for each service? And then these services open within the same app? I might be wrong but doesn’t this violate App Guidelines?
Even the Microsoft 365 app shows you Outlook or Teams in the “Apps” section, but launching them from there still opens the individual apps for Outlook or Teams.
exactly this. To all the folks saying “tHen jUsT dOn’T SiDELoAd” the whole point is that it’s not just allowing the users who want to sideload today, it’s opening the door for side loading to become THE way that major companies push folks to access their apps.
Regardless of what OS team you’re on, the “freedom” of the android and side loading is that it also requires a much higher degree of knowledge, decision making, and active self protection by the users - that inherently means more security/malware/support issues.
If you want or need all that, you’re probably gonna fucking hate a lot of things about iOS across the entire experience anyway, so you go Android. If you have zero understanding or desire to add that level of responsibility to your digital life, then maybe you aren’t married to Android and the iPhone simplifies this for you.
I think it’s a dumb pointless move to force side loading on iOS.
TL;DR Some people want to drive stick shift, others want an automatic, others want all electric - this like saying all car models need to legally be made in all three versions or it can’t be made at all.
I agree. I think what most people don’t realize is that it’s very likely that the first adopters would be companies who can actually afford to do their own hosting, marketing, and distribution. No indie developer will decide to make their first app as an app store for the app they’re really trying to build.
Take Adobe, for example. They have 28 apps on the App Store right now. Assume I’m a person whose workflow relies critically on Adobe Acrobat Sign, and at the same time I’m the person who keeps getting told “then don’t sideload if you don’t want to.”
Adobe then decides to put all their apps on the Adobe App Store exclusively. Well, might as well throw that “Allow sideloading” toggle out the window because I don’t have a choice but to turn it on so I can continue to use Adobe Acrobat Sign, or leave it off and settle with a crappy experience in a browser or wherever.
But still, the keyword here is “exclusively”. If they make 3rd party app store apps equally available on the App Store, then we’re going to be okay, and I can leave my “Allow sideloading” toggle off.
For now.
How about just having lower fees on the app store and its in app purchases to not incentivize people to flee from it like it’s the plague? That’s what itch.io and Valve are doing and it sure seems to be working fine.
I’m honestly baffled by this community and it makes me feel like if the MS IE antitrust case happened today, most of this thread’s commenters would side with Microsoft or just be paid to say so.
this like saying all car models need to legally be made in all three versions or it can’t be made at all.
Yes, that is the point, software switches are easily added whereas transmission systems less so. The EU is forcing more social and commercial innovation into Apple than the whole 3 past years’ worth of work from their own departmens.
yeah lower fees would also 100% be a simple solution here too. When it was innovative and the only legit app store on the market, site maybe it was easier to get away with, but nowadays that lead has closed so it’s pretty wild they still take 30%
Everyone: we want choice!
Apple: that’s the great misunderstanding. If you can’t choose us, you have no choice.
Wut…
I see that one of the bigger reasons why people want sideloading so bad is to pirate apps they don’t want to buy.
I can assure that a developer would likely take the 30% cut from the App Store versus trying your luck on other stores like Play Store, Galaxy Store, with the added risk of someone pirating your app and missing out on potential revenue.
Unpopular opinion but iOS doesn’t need sideloading. What does need sideloading is the goddamn iPad. It’s the most neglected product by Apple and giving it sideloading capabilities allows devs to make the most out of the M1/M2 chip.
I’ll use it to get around geo locked apps. For example, the PlayStation app is not available in my country which is very annoying. Same for PayPal and some others.
what exactly is there to do on the iPad that you cannot do right now without sideloading?
the only thing I can think of is Apple’s $99 annual fee to develop for their platforms.
You cannot use an iPad as a developer platform. There’s no Xcode or Compiler, providing one is against the App Store policy so those apps just don’t exist in a meaningful manner.
Emulators. Or literally any app on Mac that is not available for iPad.
I sideload because I fucking hate ads on YouTube, and it’s literally impossible to use the official app without losing brain cells from the endless ads. I also like being able to have emulators on my phone, which is something I’ve been doing since around 2013.
Only reason that you don’t want side loading is if you support Apple’s unethical business practices. Nobody is forcing you to sideload apps. I’m thrilled to be able to sideload
How is it unethical? It’s Apple’s business. If you don’t like Whopper Whopper Whopper then get a Big Mac. Free Market? Hello?
When I was an android user, I would sideload every now and then. Not one did I pirate. On iOS FOSS apps pretty much don’t exist or are buried among forks that add mountains of ads and garbage.
On the App Store, they restrict away the kinds of apps that have a ton of value. For example, Microsoft can’t release their cloud gaming platform as an app, instead we have to use a neutered pwa.
Just give me freedom and don’t treat me like a criminal or child because I want to use apps that mommy Apple doesn’t approve of.
I just want emulation and Fortnite, that’s all. I’m excited for side loading.
Any nice apps made by single devs that don’t want to pay the apple tax will become available to everyone and be much more common. But yeah that’s a niche use case.
Yeah yeah… we know, you’ll louse profit…
I’ll be honest, as much as I agree with the freedom of choice on that matter. He is not wrong to say that if you can only download apps from the App Store, that closes a massive security hole. I’m not looking forward to having to troubleshoot grandmas iPhone because she downloaded the wrong thing looking for a recipe but it’ll be nice to not be confined to the rules of the corporate overlords. Pros and cons.
It’s not like an everyday user tires to sidoade apps. It’s 0.1% of the population.
Exactly, and now 99.9% of us will have to deal with the decreased security just because those 0.1% couldn’t just go buy a fucking Android
Just makes me think of my coworker whose samsung phone had so much random crap on it that every other tap on the screen would trigger a 30 second ad, sometimes followed by a second or third ad. Took forever just to get to the Settings app. Ended up having to boot into safe mode and removing a good chunk of apps for him.
Just dont be srupid and you will be fine. And sideloading actually requires turning it on for each app in the settings so you cant do it by accident
Legit question, is side loading not already offered in some way? I thought sideloading is when you can download an app straight off a web browser. I’ve done that before multiple times for work apps.
Or is it specific to purchases for paid apps?
No matter how you do it, opening another channel of app installation will always make a device „less secure“. It’s in the very nature. Users have to be more careful with sideloaded apps and the OS has to tighten security.
I‘m not worried though, mostly because of one thing: Even on Android I hardly know anybody who actually sideloaded apps. And I guess iOS will do more than its fair share of warning users not to do it.
I mostly look forward to it for Fortnite and some emulators.
You’re missing the actual problem, though. Right now the OS is written in such a way that it rejects running any apps not signed by Apple, always.
In the future it won’t.
But this is a tad ridiculous. Sideloading on Android has always been a thing, the average user has no idea what it is or how to do it.
Yes, it’s safer within the app store. No, granny won’t accidentally install something, you need to allow installs from the source, accept permissions, clear the “are you sure” security screen, then finally choose between install and cancel, before getting one last security screen, “app was downloaded from the internet”.
The concept of security is correct, your anecdote is a false example of it.
No, granny won’t accidentally install something,
Maybe not, but hackers can install apps that aren’t signed by Apple and now they’ll run
If your gradma knows how to sideload apps you have bigger security concerns than that.
“If you know where you’re downloading apps from” a lot of people don’t, and still do it.
This is my concern too. We already have quite sophisticated scams guiding people to install TeamViewer, AnyDesk, etc on PC’s; you can bet they’ll adapt their techniques to work on iPhones too, guiding grandpa through side loading malicious software.
Hopefully iOS will make a distinction between side loaded and AppStore loaded apps and adjust permissions accordingly (via a VM, container, or some other mechanism).
Obviously not perfect, but security is a never ending game of cat and mouse.
Why is iPhone the only OS that’s so insecure that it can’t let users install apps the usual way?
It isn’t. People in these comments have zero clue as to what they’re talking about. Sideloading is no worse than downloading a program on your computer. If you use your brain, you won’t get a virus. What a surprise!
Of course this is the angle they take, because they know they’re going to be forced to actually have to compete.
Compete against what lol. Apps? They have their native apps and you can opt for third party developer apps in the app store. You can even delete most of the native apps. The thing with opinion is people can talk shit for free, not even using a valid argument.
Are you stupid? The EU courts are forcing Apple to allow third party app storrs specifically because of competition.
Should side-loading be allowed? From a consumer point of view, absolutely.
Will it also be a nightmare for Apple? Also yes. Just wait till boomers and dumb teenagers load malware onto her iPhone and some poor schmuck at the Apple Store has to deal with it. Keeping the iPhone locked to the App Store is far simpler for Apple and makes the phones more reliable. It’s also hella profitable.
For those of us who know what we’re doing, it would be awesome to have access to apps that Apple might not otherwise not allow. It’ll also give developers more freedom.
But you gotta remember that the general population is dumb and does dumb shit.
It’s easy to manage the situation in reality, when you download from third party sources you put a disclaimer that warns of the possible consequences, if there are problems Apple washes its hands of it and off you go
I would have agreed with this stance 6+ years ago but there’s so much garbage, malware, adware, etc. on the App Store that it’s not as regulated as they’d like to have you believe.
Even simple stuff like a pdf editor, phot editor or whatever. If it’s not a big name company, you’re taking a risk. Let’s not get into small and more niche apps.
Plus, Google kinda pushed Apple into this position but if this goes through, first thing everyone is doing is install YouTube Vanced to ditch the ads.
Overall I’m pretty whatever on it, it it happens, great. If it doesn’t, oh well.
The ONLY thing that would get me to be more in favour is if this allows for ublock to make an appearance as a fully fledged iOS app with all the bells and whistles I see on PC.
I think whenever sideloading becomes a thing the most reasonable solution to me is to make it only doable by injection through a program on a Mac or pc.
It would still allow anyone that really wants to get a program to have it, and the program itself could still self update without having to plug back in, but it would add that one extra step that would keep your average person from accidentally downloading something they shouldn’t.
Like my grandma. If sideloading were on a phone and just had to click okay a couple extra times, she might accidentally do it. If she had to plug it in to download initially, she’d think is this something that I need?
You will probably need to enable developer mode (a few clicks and a restart) and then confirm something like 30 times in order to install an app. You won’t be able to do it by default, that would be just stupid.
May be Apple wouldn’t have been forced to allow sideloading if they hadn’t resorted to monopolistic practices and extorted profits from developers.