• starman2112@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    1 year ago

    Then you’re not a deontologist. It’s definitional. Actions have inherent moral value, regardless of the situation. If something is ever not permissible, then it’s always not permissible. That’s what deontologists believe, isn’t it? If not, then you’re still taking a consequentialist stance on morality, but with extra steps that allow you to claim that your own inaction is actually the right thing to do, but only when you decided not to take action.

    If you don’t think violence is always wrong, then what’s your excuse for not pulling the lever, or voting for the person who would cause less suffering? To my eyes, those are situations where the “violence” I’m commiting is permissible because it leads to less suffering than inaction would.

    • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Then you’re not a deontologist. It’s definitional

      wrong. what does kant think we should do about murder?

      • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        I don’t know, and frankly I don’t care. You reply too much. Enjoy the blood on your hands when you see every Palestinian dead and every American woman who has a miscarriage jailed because you allowed Desantis to win in 2024. At least you can pay yourself on the back and say “it’s not my fault, I didn’t want him to win, but the guy who wouldn’t have funded the genocide of the Palestinians and stacked the supreme court with religious extremists was mean to people!”

          • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            You would rather see every Palestinian dead than only some Palestinians dead. If that’s what you think is right, then you are evil.

            • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              id rather no Palestinians were dead, and I’m not going to vote for someone who will find their genocide-- a little or a lot.

              • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                That’s too bad, the choices are some or all. One of the two will happen, and you will have an impact on which one does. If all of them die because you voted 3rd party, that’s partially on you.

                  • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    I’m going to take the action that will lead to the least unnecessary suffering. It’s not my fault that the two choices are some or all, and given the choice between the two, allowing all of them to die would be evil. Will you be allowing all Palestinians to die?

    • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      then what’s your excuse for not pulling the lever

      the categorical imperative. if I were tied to the track I would not want someone to send a trolley hurtling at me when they have the choice not to do that.

      • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Regardless of whether you pull the lever, you are sending the trolley hurtling at someone. You don’t get to say you didn’t choose for the 5 people to die. Walking away from the lever is as active a choice as pulling it. Deontology is just an excuse to not do the right thing when it makes you feel bad.

        If you were tied to the track, there would be a 5 in 6 chance that you’re among the ones that the trolley is already hurtling towards. With your own reasoning here, pulling the lever is desired by far more people than not pulling the lever. Doesn’t that mean you have a moral imperative to pull it?