Was really surprised to see the difference in fumbles.
- Tua: 3177 yards passing, 69.8%, 4 fumbles lost
- Allen: 2875 yards passing, 69.6%, 3 fumbles lost
Tua has 22 TDs, 14 Turnovers
Allen has 29 TDs, 15 Turnovers
Both are turning it over too much for 11 games played. The main difference has been that the Dolphins run game is really good. Dolphins RBs have A LOT more TDs than Bills RBs.
The bills have 18 turnovers as a team a little under 2/3rds of the regular season, whilst the dolphins have 19. Last year in 17 games the eagles had 19, chiefs had 23. Bills would have just under 28 and dolphins just over 29 if their averages through the first 11 games held up for the remaining 6.
Clearly looking at Super Bowl calibre teams, they both turn the ball over way too much, scoring is overrated as you can score every possession and be perfect as the QB, doesn’t matter if the other team plays the possession game properly.
Thanks for writing this out more accurately compared to what OP posted. I was thinking Tua had 20 turnovers
Can you please explain to me because I still get 20 when I add up ops 10 and 10. Are those numbers incorrect?
Yes. Tua has 10 INTs and 4 lost fumbles (14 total turnovers). Josh has 12 INTs and 3 lost fumbles (15 total turnovers). The post has total fumbles listed so Tua has 10 fumbles but 6 were recovered by the offense and Josh has 4 fumbles but 1 was recovered by the offense.
Allen also has 7 rushing TDs and Tua has none.
Few of allens could have been from a rb easily.
Does whether a fumble is lost or not really matter when evaluating QB play? Like obviously it affects the outcome of the game, but they still lost the ball, just because one of them got lucky and had a lineman fall on the ball more often than the other doesn’t make them a better QB.
Bills run game is fine but JA audibles out of run plays all the time
Problem is that Allen clusters his scoring and turnovers. Feast or famine works for the defense and some position players but not QB1 in the National Football League, Boomer! Let’s throw it back to Gus.
Allen has one of the lowest turnover worthy throws in the league, about 5 of his interceptions haven’t been remotely his fault
The Mahomes experience.
Down voted for PFF, I am guilty myself of scoffing at it when they said Allen has the most “turnover worthy throws” and now using it as an argument when he has a low amount of
He had a lot of turnover worthy throws last year though…
Dolphins whole offense and supporting cast is better than the Bills. The Bills just fired their OC mid season because he stinks and Allen still puts up these numbers.
Bills have a better line, we have better weapons and a better playcaller. I refuse to get in the QB debate because both are good at what they do.
Funny way of saying Allen is clearly better ;)
The number don’t lie. Time to release Josh Allen and bring back Nathan Peterman.
All I see are two elite QBs that people love to hate on because the league has either shoved them down their throats or people don’t like to be proven wrong about being good or not. Chances are if you compare your QB against Tua or Josh they aren’t as good as them with a few exceptions to that.
That’s a good thing to point out - these days the hating/anti-fan energy (maybe because we’re all terminally online to some degree) is much stronger than I remember in past eras. For example, it feels like fans of other teams (that have nothing to do with the Bills) will hate on Josh Allen as much/more than I did Tom Brady.
…But Tom Brady made my team his bitch for the better part of two decades. So I’d like to think my hate was more justified.
For example, it feels like fans of other teams (that have nothing to do with the Bills) will hate on Josh Allen as much/more than I did Tom Brady.
This is probably confirmation bias, like your take definitely is, but from my perspective, this is absolutely no fucking way in hell Josh Allen gets more hate than Tom Fucking Brady did from 31 other fanbases.
Agreed - I replied to someone else making that point re: confirmation bias which is definitely a part of it. Re-framing the sentiment I have slightly - with Brady I at least get it because, if for no other reason, people probably got sick of him. The Allen hate I don’t really get because (and yeah, definitely wearing the fan bias here) he seems like a nice enough chap and frankly hasn’t yet been shoved in everyone’s faces yet to really elicit the “Man, I’m fucking sick of this guy yet.”
for real
I would say this is almost entirely down to a combination of you potentially having more nfl discourse online, which leads to more polarizing opinions. Then the bigger part is your own biases. Nothing wrong with it, Allen is your guy so you’re more likely to remember all the bad stuff said about him. I can promise you he is no where near actually being hated at the same level as Brady lol
For sure, I’d acknowledge it’s a bias thing to a degree. I should’ve phrased myself a bit better in my previous - what throws me off re: the Allen hate is like…he hasn’t done anything yet to really deserve it? Like with Brady, I mean when a guy is in that many Super Bowls and conference championship games, I totally get people getting sick of him.
And I just ignore the “he’s overrated” contingent because you don’t watch football if you think Allen is overrated.
Very good point.
Tua is just not a consistent in being a good quarterback, every-year is a up and down drama with him.
Muthafuckas got fumbilits
>Was really surprised to see the difference in fumbles.
i’m not. Any of our RBs not named Achane or Mostert will practically hand the ball over to the defense, and our center isn’t even a center, leading to wild throws to the QB that he inevitably fumbles.
Tua is Jameis Winston but with a different fatal flaw. Jameis was a terrible decision maker and Tua is just so physically limited.
A good chunk of Tua’s fumbles are from snaps because Connor Williams is not a good snapper (great blocker however). A couple of other fumbles have also occurred on direct hand-offs that were given directly to the RBs but just never secured (I think those were attributed to Tua, but idk for sure). There was also a weird backwards pass on a bad play call against Carolina that went out of bounds for a loss.
Out of all the fumbles, I think about 2-3 were legit strip sacks, and one was a fumble on a QB run.
Tua has been throwing some terrible picks lately, and there’s no excuse for a couple of them. He needs to clean that up. But at least half of those fumbles are atrocious snaps from our center(s).
You Bills fans are hilarious
Winning covers up a lot of faults.
TBF the fumbles lost are more even. 2/3
Tua thought he was taking tumbling lessons, turns out they were fumbling lessons
This is a funny tweet and Miami fans are soft for downvoting you
They’ll get over it one day, in the meantime we have some fuckin tables to demolish
Hope the players get home healthy and the fans get home drunk as shit
Not a great year to have Burrow and Tua as my QBs in fantasy
I feel your pain bruh
Allen is a TD machine, none of these stats are surprising
Most total TD’s in first 6 seasons of a career in NFL history. Dictionary definition TD machine.
Someone’s gonna come in and mention mahomes redshirting his first year, and how the record would be his otherwise, so I’ll save them the energy. First or second in that stat is big time no matter what. And Allen is number one anyway. Haters gonna hate
I think Mahomes getting to go straight into a super elite offense makes up for redshirting anyways.
If you’re breaking a Dan Marino record (or even passing a Dan Marino top 5) that’s fucking good for a QB. Period.
Didn’t Allen start only a handful of games his first year?
Better metric is PFF’s turnover worthy play % (lower is better)
Tua: 3.3% (19th best in NFL)
Allen: 2.4% (6th best in NFL)
If anyone is interested, here’s the top 5 and bottom 5 among QBs that have had over 285 passing attempts (basically at least half of games started).
Five best:
Dak Prescott (1.6%)
Matt Stafford (1.9%)
Joe Burrow (2.1%)
Kenny Pickett (2.1%)
Kirk Cousins (2.3%)
Five worst:
Geno Smith (3.9%)
Josh Dobbs (4.0%)
Brock Purdy (4.1%)
Mac Jones (5.1%)
Desmond Ridder (5.6%)
Listen buddy I was promised Dak Pickscott
Should also note the most important thing is the ratio of big time throws to turnover worthy plays. Tua just about leads to league in big time throw rate at 6.4%. A 2:1 BTT/TWP ratio is elite.
Tua has been slinging it, of course that’s going to end up with more interceptions. You’re telling me a guy who throws it enough to hit 3000 yards in week 11 has a lot of picks? Who would have guessed.
Are these free stats or need a pff sub?
Super unlucky is just the Buffalo football way
How do the dorks at PFF determine if it’s turnover worthy maybe they’re just tight window throws
I think on a case by case basis it could be muddy. For example they didn’t call any of Tua’s throws in that game in Germany TWP, even though I’m sure some were.
Over a season though it’s fairly accurate, and a better - but still flawed - way of estimating how well QBs take care of the ball.
Most of them are pretty obvious, it’s just QBs throwing the ball to a DB that gets dropped lmao. Even if it’s subjective and not perfect, it’s way more accurate than blaming a QB for an INT that bounced off of an open WR’s hands
The latter is the classic Lamar Jackson interception
Five best:
Dak Prescott (1.6%)
I know most of you know that last year was weird, but it feels so good when its typed out
He had a broken thumb.
Allen: 2.4% (6th best in the NFL)
I’m actually a big believer in PFF and put more weight in system/ranking than the average redditor…
But that is sus af.
Allen out there throwing hopes and prayers on a regular basis. Hell, he should have had 2 more INTs against Denver alone. He’s a turnover-prone gun slinger and always has been.
You’re basing this all off the Broncos game where one of his picks literally went shining off Gabe Davis’ hands? Lol
Well no, it was Allen’s fault because he threw it too hard!!!
Yeah that comment thread on the video of it was insane
I knew Pickett was elite!
blame canada
Not really PFF is a joke
KENNY PICKETT TOP 5 BABY (end my suffering)
He is really good at avoiding turnovers, and that allows us to win. He’d be an elite backup, come in, make safe throws, doesn’t turn the ball over.
I mean…it’s really easy to avoid turnovers when the only two places you’ll throw it are behind the LOS or 10 rows into the stands.
Purdy can’t keep getting lucky right?
That boy be ballin
purdy elite
I’m guessing there’s a correlation between big time throws and turnover worthy plays
Man I hate pff, but they say Kenny is good here so I’ll allow it.
Weird when this stat was posted last week to credit Dak, all the comments were just critiquing there stat. “How can you measure turnover worthy plays? It’s completely subjective” etc.
We did want Tua to be more aggressive this seasons and, well, he is. For better or worse
From a grading POV he’s having the best year of his career.
You have to wonder how much is being covered by his coaching and Hill, but at the end of the day, he’s the one throwing those passes.
He’s having a great year. #2 ranked QB this year so far.