- cross-posted to:
- chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
- cross-posted to:
- chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
No, masculinity did.
(Okay, I’m over-simplifying, just watch the video!)
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yeah feminism failed men it gave them a freakinf d minus
You get an “F” for Feminism.
Hooray!
Edit: Joke. A bad one that I formulated poorly. ugh.
Shit, this could be construed as anti-feminist.
Why do I keep walking right into this stuff?!
First, may I suggest that people posting videos post a brief synopsis rather than just the title? From the title this sounds like a typical MRA/Andrew Tate kind of video. From the comment discussion I’m assuming it’s not, but my instinct was to just skip it based on that. A short burst of text that I can read in a few seconds is enough to let me know whether I should watch something when I have time, or just skip it.
Second, by reading the comments, it seems like it’s not actually MRA. If that’s the case, then I recommend that interested parties look into the men’s liberation movement. Unlike MRA, men’s lib is designed specifically to be supportive of and build off of the women’s liberation movement and specifically address issues like toxic masculinity, honor culture, rape culture, and so on. It’s intended to take an intersectional approach to the social and health problems men face and address them in a whole-of-society fashion inclusive of gender diversity and sexual preferences. There was a thriving community on that other site for it where people could have both heartfelt and informed discussions as to what defines masculinity, how it’s been realized throughout history and cross-culturally, and how things like southern culture or Christian conservative politics exploit particular versions of the idea to promote the violence and static structure associated with the patriarchy.
It’s quite the opposite of Andrew Tate. It’s a discussion of how masculinity “breaks men so they can break others”, done by a gay leftist trans man with a sociology background. So not only does he know what it’s like to move from being treated as a girl to being treated as a boy and the emotional toll it takes, he also brings the gender euphoria typical for us trans folks to the table, and that POV turns out to be a pretty powerful analytic perspective. He takes masculinity apart from a feminist vantage point, there’s a lot of bell hooks in the vid, but while he understands the ins and outs of toxic masculinity he also genuinely loves being a dude, and that leads to the kind of heartfelt and informed discussion about masculinity you’re describing.
I think that’s fantastic. I’m just suggesting that, if exactly this text had been posted alongside the video, I and possibly others would have wanted to watch it. My threshold for watching a video - especially these days given the proliferation of monetized over the top MRA videos and such - is higher than that for some text. If I’m with someone, I have to either stick it in a queue for later watching or find some headphones, I can’t watch it from the back of an Uber or in public, and so on.
I will end up watching this when I can. It also sounds exactly aligned with the men’s lib movement.
I’m just suggesting that, if exactly this text had been posted alongside the video, I and possibly others would have wanted to watch it.
Absolutely. That goes for most of the vids posted on here, i wouldn’t have watched it either if i wasn’t familiar with the guy’s work.
Pretty sure the video title is to trick reactionary minded men into watching the video.
This is a fantastic summary/explanation. I also had the wrong idea from the title, but you totally sold me on watching this.
Nobody’s posting MRA shit on hexbear
To be fair I did click on this thinking it was a dunk tank post but yeah
No, it’s not whatever it is you’re describing.
The video is educational all the same (outside of the topic of masculinity).
I realize that. I’m suggesting that the perspective might be made clear for people who are not in an environment or time situation where they need to watch a video in order to see whether they want to watch a video, or who do not want to give views to potentially misogynistic content.
Oh, okay. I will do what you suggested next time, I suppose. Sorry about the bother.
Oh, no worries! It’s no bother. It’s just a suggestion that might garner getting more views, and I do think this is important content that more people should see.
Thank you! And yes, I completely understand. I’m not mad or annoyed or anything.
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I literally explained why that’s an unreasonable expectation. Posting a headline-only news article is one thing - it’s at least something I can read in just about any context and I’m reading anyway - but even that’s not as good as posting an article with a summary or some sample paragraphs. Posting a video with some clickbait or one liner description is all but useless.
One of the referenced books (bell hooks, The Will to Change, 2004) has on ongoing reading session on Hexbear.
Wait a second, have we interacted before? Why do I recognize you…
im ksynwa from lemmygrad
seems legit, definitely not something wearing the hollowed-out skin of ksynwa from lemmygrad
Yes, I’m aware.
Ever notice how every time the topic of male mental health comes up the conclusion is almost always that it’s women’s responsibility to clean it up for them.
yeah, I hate that
I found a YouTube link in your post. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
It’s a great video too, imho
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Tbh, I think masculinity is dumb and overrated.
In fact, I think “no masculinity” would be better, in my honest opinion.
Men? Fine. Masculinity? Not fine.
Most masculinity is performative anyway. All bark and not bite.
I have one friend who has sadly been claimed by the manosphere pipeline despite my best efforts. He constantly spouts toxic “masculine” nonsense in group chat, presumably to let us all know what a manly man he is, yet his actual life circumstances reflect the exact opposite of his words. He constantly makes creepy comments about women we either know or who come up in conversation but is of course long term single (this is if course all women’s fault according to Tate and JP), he dresses like a viking but has terrible physical fitness, and he has terrible financial sense and is constantly falling for mlms and crypto grifts.
I make a concerted effort to drown all his toxic bullshit out with stories about all the awesome pies I’ve made that week, or how I painted my nails or whatever. Just trying to juxtapose his absolute clown car off a life philosophy with my just do you philosophy, in a vain attempt to show him that the path to happiness isn’t strutting around like a bull elephant trying to be the big man.
Edit: and if it came down to it I could kick his arse with my sparkly glittery nails. My point being that I’m more of a man than he is by his own metrics
Most masculinity is performative anyway.
Isn’t that kind of the point? Masculinity and femininity are two groups of performances and signifiers that are collaboratively and continuously defined and redefined by the groups that perform them. There is no “true” or “essential” masculinity or feminity, only the ones we assert and perpetuate.
Well some of the second wave radical feminists theorized that “masculinity” was essentially defined to justify the oppression of women and all its core traits are necessary for that. As I read it, if men stopped oppressing women, whatever new thing they were now doing would be so different than today’s masculinity that it wouldn’t even make sense to use the same word. Like how there could be no “bourgeois identity” under communism, or no “whiteness” after white supremacy. They think that there’s some real-but-untrue thing meant by masculinity, not just whatever men do. Which is interesting but does backfire and reify the concept of masculinity. I’m still thinking it over. Source Refusing to Be a Man
My younger brother was claimed by the manosphere, among other things.
Sorry for what happened to your friend.
lots of butches have talked about how they have a non toxic form of masculinity that men could learn from.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Most masculinity is performative anyway. All bark and not bite.
I have one friend who has sadly been claimed by the manosphere pipeline despite my best efforts. He constantly spouts toxic “masculine” nonsense in group chat, presumably to let us all know what a manly man he is, yet his actual life circumstances reflect the exact opposite of his words. He constantly makes creepy comments about women we either know or who come up in conversation but is of course long term single (this is if course all women’s fault according to Tate and JP), he dresses like a viking but has terrible physical fitness, and he has terrible financial sense and is constantly falling for mlms and crypto grifts.
I make a concise effort to drown all his toxic bullshit or with stories about all the awesome pies I’ve made that week, or how I painted my nails or whatever. Just trying to juxtapose his absolute clown car off a life philosophy with my just do you philosophy in a vein attempt to show him that the path to happiness isn’t strutting around like a bull elephant trying to be the big man.
I like it. I don’t see the point of “abolishing” it. The things we do and prefer will always have some label to it, and not generalizing things will just make them much more annoying and difficult to talk about. We just need to stop associating “masculine” and “feminine” with morality and objective worth.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Perhaps.
