I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but threads or comments about Lemmy or the Fediverse get downvoted a lot on Reddit and trolls who claim that it’s “dogshit” and “not going anywhere” get systematically upvoted.
Some of those trolls get then exposed when you ask them what Lemmy instance they tried and one of them with whom I had a surreal exchange answered with something like “yeah ofc I used Lemmy, this is the instance: join-lemmy.org” 🤦♂️
It’s frustrating that these trolls keep contributing to the big lie that “Lemmy is not ready yet” and that there’s “no viable alternative to Reddit”.
This and the overwhelming number of comments being “against the mod protests” just prompts me to question whether there isn’t some brigading being organized straight from the Reddit HQ.
Probably bots. Reddit has been using them for some time, but recently got caught using chat gpt or something similar to argue against the blackouts.
Which is fking insane since one of Steve’s excuses for upping API pricing so high is to fight LLM from training on “their” dataset! Fucking LOL
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I’ve noticed this. A lot of people seem mad at the users and subs leaving, not so much the dumb CEO
The majority aren‘t bots. Most of them are legit no lifers to whom Reddit going down the drain would be a huge blow. I mean you work full time as a cashier for taco bell and you are not really happy with that situation. Some people go to school again, learn a skill… others spend all their time one Reddit stockpiling karma. Those are the people who really hate lemmy and anything that could remotely make Reddit worse, because they are heavily invested in the platform for the wrong reasons.
It really feels like that is happening in /r/lotrmemes – https://www.reddit.com/r/lotrmemes/comments/14cekxa/shall_we_continue_the_blackout_poll_round_2/
Do you have a source for this claim? I’m very interested in reading about it
That’s pathetic lmao.
that is pretty conclusive
Unfortunately there’s probably a large amount of users who simply don’t care.
But that’s okay. What matters is content creators, not content consumers. Anyone with half a gram of decency and self integrity will have realized that they need to take steps to move away from Reddit.
When the content creators leave and go to Lemmy/Kbin, eventually those content consumers will leave and go with them too. Will be a bonus for the Fediverse
We need to ask Louis Rossmann to join the fediverse. He’s been super critical with Reddit on YouTube.
I’m sure he’s already aware and will make an account if he wants to.
There’s no point in shoving the Fediverse in someone’s face.
Dumb question… Sorry, what’s kbin? I’ve seen it mentioned together to Lemmy, but it’s all rather new to me.
Exactly. Let the milquetoast mouth-breathers stay behind. With sufficient brain-drain, Reddit will eventually look like Quora.
I care and I’m here. I count as do all of us! Fuck ‘em!
If they want to gate-keep themselves then fine by me.
I legit joined this instance yesterday because I’m not going to trust the claims of randos (who are now very easy to see as frauds) and although I agree that Lemmy needs some work, it’s responsive and reasonably usable. I’m impressed at how well it’s handling the massive Reddit migration.
I think there’s truth to some of the “not ready” claims… and this is coming from someone who really tried to get into Lemmy, ended up creating their own instance (as demonstrated by my user handle).
A few issues I think Lemmy dev team really need to address ASAP, from least technical (thus affecting most users) to more technical (this affecting less users) are:
1. UX/Discoverability – Finding communities are a huge pain in the backend right now, and with multiple communities on different instances serving same purpose (i.e.: !reddit@lemmy.ml and !reddit@lemmy.world). Sure, Reddit had same issues (the example I’ve heard is /r/meirl and /r/me_irl), but Reddit offered solution (multi on old reddit, community+community on new reddit). There must be a way to streamline it with meta-communities or lists on Lemmy such that the contents can be viewed in a unified fashion. I recommended
!community@(note the lack of domain) to streamline all of user’s subscriptions with same name on different instances as an example; and perhaps we can use#list$user@lemmy.domainfor users’s maintained lists to unify!homelab@lemmy.ml,!datahoarder@lemmy.ml,!homelab@lemmy.world, etc.).2. Trigger happy defederation hubs – a certain instance has unceremoniously de-federated a couple of other larger instances. This is not the way, but here we are, with users on those instances not able to access the broader Fediverse, and vice versa. Until discoverability gets taken care of, it will be challenging for users to find a good home – this leads to next point:
3. Authentication – The Fediverse at large needs to separate authentication out from instances. Instances may provide their own authentication, fine, but there needs to be better way to authenticate against something else other than an entire new instance of Lemmy. The ActivityPub protocol has clear definitions on what is an actor, and users shouldn’t need to deploy a Lemmy instance to identify themselves, separately from a Mastadon instance to identify themselves, separately from a… etc. This is because frankly…
4. Deployment of Lemmy is utter garbage. The official documentation’s getting started guide gets users setup with an instance where the UI container cannot talk to public, but the lemmy backend can? Why bother shipping an nginx container if the backend will just expose itself to the whole wide net? Also, let’s just pretend postgres container isn’t open to the whole world with a basic password… Trying to get it up and running with Traefik was a pain, just do a quick Google and see how many people have asked and gave up, as well as how many different ways people have tried to go at it (something something xkcd 927; I’ve contributed to a new one of my own per linked post on top!), and the dev basically just straight up going ‘we don’t support traefik’… also, each approach is not without problems…
5. Federation is a bitch. I am pretty proud of the way I’ve used override to not edit original docker compose, and locked my setup down a little. But, I’m not ready to have the instance open to the whole wide web without CloudFlare in front… but allegedly, Federation doesn’t work with CloudFlare… why? Good luck trying to get to even a popular sub’s scale without getting hit with DDOS when someone disagrees with something someone else posted.
There’s many more problems, and I genuinely want Lemmy to work. But, Lemmy is, lack of better words, “not yet ready” for prime time. It is thrown into the spotlight with Mastadon (which feels a bit more mature, at least from reading the docs) because of bad leadership at mega techs… It will take a lot of work for Lemmy to evolve and mature, before it can be “ready” to really absorb the mass of Redditors leaving Reddit.
- That certain community is beehaw.org by any chance? They also ask you to write pretty much an essay to join, and didn’t accept mine.
I have an account on beehaw and I wrote like three sentences and was accepted, I wrote the same thing here on lemmy.ml not being accepted is probably more of an attribute of you
Regarding #2, I think not defederating might be an easier sell if users had the ability to block instances. Right now it’s just users and communities. Hate lemmygrad? You can block its communities one by one, but it’s kind of a pain. So instances only have the option of a full block.
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Lemmygrad is thoroughly obnoxious. Full stop. Also, you clearly have no idea what western chauvinism is if you’re calling me one.
Edit: To clarify, I don’t want Lemmygrad being defederated. It breaks up the Fediverse for little reason. But I do want users to be given the option to block instances on either the community or user level. Would I say the same thing about a right wing instance with a history of bigotry and hate? No, that’s another matter that goes beyond mere discomfort.
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You hate Lemmygrad because you hate communism
I dislike it because it is a personality cult and worships governments that have not earned that praise. Communism doesn’t enter into it. While I’m not communist, I don’t hate it. It has some interesting insights, but it’s hard to ignore that in practice it usually just makes a new ruling class that has no intention of ever releasing power. I’m interested to see where China goes over the next few decades as it shifts from playing catch up (easy productivity gains) to reaching parity (harder productivity gains).
western chauvinist
neoliberalism
At this point, you’re just picking pejoratives out of a hat marked “disagrees with me”. I don’t believe in Western superiority, even if I believe in certain values that are widely espoused in the West (free speech, democracy, etc.). But I’m not shy about being critical of my country when it goes astray from my values. And I’m free to do so because I live in a country where that is a right. Would you do the same for China? Would you feel safe doing so if you lived in China?
And for the record, my family has a long history of appreciating cultures around the world. I just don’t like authoritarianism, populism, and kleptocracy, regardless of what political brand is associated with it.
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I went to have a look back in United Kingdom sub and seemed even more right wing and.thw think-tank bots paid posts than normal.
Well, to be fair, I do think that people have a point when they say Lemmy isn’t ready or yet on scale of reddit to be equal competition. Lemmy doesn’t have a userbase as large, even throughout all instances, and it also probably wouldn’t be able to sustain if everyone left reddit and came here, which means less content.
But who cares? I certainly don’t want all redditors to leave and come here. I do think reddit itself is probably sabotaging discussions of alternatives but there are plenty of real users who would say the exact same things. Corporate actions aside, reddit also sucked because of its users and the culture created there. Not all users add value. If those trolls, Right-wingers, and shills all came here, then it would replicate the garbage. There are some aspects of reddit I’ll miss, or may sometimes dip into in the future for a transaction, like a Criterion film marketplace, but I’m otherwise happier here. If those things from reddit that I miss or want are eventually replicated on Lemmy then I’ll never in any form go back to reddit. If redditors are happy with their shitposts and bot-populated or meme-speak comments on reddit but think Lemmy is the dogshit, then all the better.
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I came here to look to see if this topic was covered. I just checked my mod queue and every single post made by my automod OR other users about Lemmy was reported multiple times for “harassment” with 40+ down votes as well. I’ve literally never had a full mod queue that was more than 6 things before and I had 30 or more posts to approve with 3 being actual things. What the fuck.
this confirms that there is indeed brigading behavior
Wouldn’t be surprised at all if it’s reddit themselves reporting and downvoting posts with bots. Spez doesn’t have a clean track record after all.
Some subreddits are also using automod to remove comments linking to Lemmy.
I hope some journalists put a spotlight on the deceptive tactics Reddit is using.
The people who like it are here. The people that don’t are still there. Not that complicated.
Amen, if Reddit ever died it would probably survive living rent free in Lemmy users’ heads.
Eh, Digg is nothing more than a historical note to most who left in the exodus, but there was a time when it made up a large % of the posts on Reddit. People will move on, but for now the wounds are still fresh.
Also, people have a natural tendency to form “teams.” Even if they don’t particularly like what Reddit’s admins have been doing they may identify as part of “team Reddit” and so see other teams as the enemy.
Besides, the way to convert isn’t by arguing. You do it by providing a good platform (not there yet), good content (not there yet) and good community (kinda there?).
I’d say we’re at “okay platform” level, and “okay content if you’re into the specific things we’ve got okay content for at this point.”
It’s a gradual process. The Fediverse is slowly getting better, and Reddit is slowly getting worse, and eventually someday they’ll pass each other in the wilderness.
There was a legendary episode in social psychology called the Robbers Cave experiment. It had been set up in the bewildered aftermath of World War II, with the intent of investigating the causes and remedies of conflicts between groups. The scientists had set up a summer camp for 22 boys from 22 different schools, selecting them to all be from stable middle-class families. The first phase of the experiment had been intended to investigate what it took to start a conflict between groups. The 22 boys had been divided into two groups of 11 -
- and this had been quite sufficient.
I’ve just read up on that experiment on Wikipedia and the conclusion you present seems to be shortcoming to tell nicely. Reassuring to me was that the two groups occasionally ganged up on the experimenters, being aware they’re being manipulated. Thanks for mentioning this, yet for me it seems to be way more to it than '2 groups will fight inevitably ’
I reckon it’s mostly bots set up by Reddit admins and sad-sack mods who consider Reddit moderation to be a full-time job
I keep seeing posts about how Lemmy isn’t an alternative because of the main developer’s political views. Like this one: https://teddit.net/r/APIcalypse/comments/140qymq/lemmy_is_not_a_viable_reddit_replacement/
What does it even matter? It’s open-source.
Reading the OP in that post argue physically hurts me, they just seem to be such an annoying person
I’d honestly be happy if the people who are swayed away from Lemmy for that reason stayed away from Lemmy. I don’t at all agree with the developer there and anyone who posts that kind of thing is gross. But anyone sensitive enough to take that as a reason to stay away from Lemmy is super annoying and I’m happy they aren’t here.
damn i clicked that link expected that the main dev is like a fashist or something…turns out he is a communist yay
Also, Lemmy is a great alternative, simply because regardless of the devs political views, literally anyone can fork it on GitHub, make Lemmy2, and link it up with OG Lemmy and Kbin.
Yeah, and as it is today, most instances aren’t even run by that dev.
Let them stay there then. We can’t force people to join us here. If they choose to believe those kind of brigading comments then they do not have the level of critical thinking to become a meaningful contributor to any site. Those who wanted to move have already moved. Those remaining there are those who chose to ignore the issue, or support reddit.
No, I wouldn’t notice because I don’t use reddit anymore.
Wouldn’t care to be honest. Let reddit be shit, all sorts of slander origi ate from there anyway.
