For those who are unaware: A couple billionaires, a pilot, and one of the billionaires’ son are currently stuck inside an extremely tiny sub a couple thousand meters under the sea (inside of the sub with the guys above).
They were supposed to dive down to the titanic, but lost connection about halfway down. They’ve been missing for the past 48 hours, and have 2 days until the oxygen in the sub runs out. Do you think they’ll make it?
The 5 submariners chances of being rescued are very slim at this point but much much higher than the 500 migrants still missing off the coast of Greece who took to the waters not for a joy ride but to escape war and seek a better life.
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I don’t disagree, but missing sub is an unusual phenomenon and mystery that gets people interested.
I don’t think the billionaires part is all that important, I didn’t know about it until today. The Kursk, the kids trapped in a cave, the miners that have spent months in a mine, those were all news too.
But yea immigrants from war-torn regions - nobody cares unless they have “blond hair and blue eyes”.
The Greece tragedy is lacking the irony and hubris of this.
I mean, it’s a tourist submersible that was aiming to bring billionaires to view the Titanic wreckage and it likely got wrecked itself. And they named the submersible Titan.
The sub’s company OceanGate was dinged by a former employee for all sorts of safety issues and they fired and sued him. There are also lots of choice quotes from the CEO (who happens to be on the vessel) about moving fast and breaking things, and regulations stifling innovation. So there’s some possible karma involved.
“OceanGate” sounds a lot like Heaven’s Gate right now ;P
And Watergate. Anything [something]gate is bad news.
Ah, another dummkopf manager who thinks a software methodology can be applied to hardware.
Well, better hope he can deploy the fix in production within the next what, 10 or so hours?
People tend to care more about the stuff that happens closer to them, or is somehow related to them. You probably don’t care all that much about the armed conflict in Mali between the government, ISIS and Wagner Group.
if you live in europe, the Mediterranean sea is you know, right next to you. And way much closer than the distance of the titanic to the shore in America, which is about 1000 nautical miles.
I don’t know anything about Mali, which is closer to to me than Titanic, but I do know a lot about the Titanic.
Or things that happen to rich white people.
That’s what I’m more upset about.
Who gives a shit about a couple of billionaires. Why does this have to be a world-wide news story? Why don’t we care about the 100s of refugees that die all the time in maritime accidents and why are those things dominating the news?
Time and time again we give the rich people all of our attention. Fuck that. We shouldn’t be letting the media direct our attention like this.
I think it’s because the story about a missing submersible is unusual, and moreover, it’s about a rescue attempt. This makes it more interesting than many other, albeit more dreadful, news stories.
750 people drowning is also unusual, and there’s also been rescue attempts.
All these victims have loved ones, and i don’t wish death on anyone, but for the billionaires I find it quite hard to care much.
I still hope they’re saved, though; and if they are I very much hope the experience will have changed them.
Unfortunately it is not that unusual since the EU stopped Mare Nostrum to save money
750 people drowning is also unusual
It’s terrible but not that unusual.
That’s just not the same. Drowning is quick and if you don’t save them immediately they’re most likely dead. Slowly suffocating in a sub while the clock ticks and something can be done about it is a different story.
Learn to care.
And they were diving to look at the titanic, everyone’s favourite maritime disaster.
sure. It has nothing to do with the fact that in one of cases they are 5 billionaires while in the other one they are 750 poor migrants. No, totally not.
It’s the mystery, where are they, what’s their condition, what’s going to happen, etc. ? It’s like watching a movie. We’re shallow and just want to be entertained.
Not entirely no, I didn’t see any news outlet leading the story with “5 Billionaires missing after Submersible lost contact”. For quite some time we didn’t even know who was on board. It’s more the fact that boats in the Mediterranean sink all the time, it’s still tragic but we know that that’s an issue we have now (most people unfortunately seem to have decided that they do not care that much). A submersible going missing and the coast guards of 2 countries looking for them, while thei only have air for a couple days, no one knowing where they are and it involving the titanic guarantees clicks, it’s almost like a movie plot. The fact that they are wealthy is certainly not the reason for it though, it’s the circumstances surrounding it, it’s unusual. People also know how ships work and why they capsize, while most people don’t have the slightest idea how deep sea submersibles work.
So yes, the ship capsizing and killing that many people is horrible and should get more attention, especially from the Goverments involved. It’s ridiculous that we let those poor people drown by the thousands and treat the ones who made it like scum. But I’m not convinced the Titanic story got traction BECAUSE the victims have money.
I agree with you, mostly, but you could also argue that the situation only exists/is only possible because they’re wealthy (the same reason the only sub apparently capable of rescuing them is owned by another billionaire). But that doesn’t diminish your point–were these somehow 5 poor people stuck at the bottom of the ocean in a sub near the Titanic, it would still probably get a lot of attention.
really? The first point of information I found out was that it cost 250k to get on.
"hey did you hear about the submarine that’s lost?
“no?”
“It cost 250k to get on, to go see the titanic wreck”
pretty much how my entire day went yesterday with various coworkers
That may be true to your experience but for the first few days I heard about this story it had nothing to do with the who or how much it cost. Stories with novelty will always sell more than stories without much novelty. Edit: And I’m not saying that’s right. The accident in Greece is a horrible tragedy, and we should value everyone’s lives equally no matter how much wealth they have. There are legitimate points where we as a society turn a blind eye to the poor (always). But, this is not a story that’s surprising why it’s getting so much attention. It’s gross how some people in this comment section are choosing to increase their hatred toward the rich rather than increasing their compassion for the poor
so you think that 2 governments would had started spending millions if 5 migrants had somehow been trapped in the seabed of the Mediterranean?
5 migrants? No fucking way. 5 average citizens of any developed nation? Sure. We perform expensive and resource intensive search and rescue operations for people lost in the wilderness or out at sea all the time. And once the media brings attention to it, there’s a lot of pressure to keep the funding going, otherwise next election cycle people are going to remember the current leadership as “those guys who just left some poor people to die to save money.”
I see your point, but I do think the poster above is right: “rescue” situations do tend to get a lot of media attention. The Thailand cave rescue and various mine collapses also spring to mind (Baby Jessica, anyone?). None of those involved particularly wealthy people (I don’t think?) and they got some measure of global attention.
The Thailand cave rescue was all over the news and they were poor.
Its about novelty, nothing more nothing less.
A bunch of rich ppl have died on Mt Everest this year, nobody gives a shit as its a common occurrence.
It was an issue for a lot of international organizations, but Greece and EU made themselves look like fools https://vlemmy.net/post/119595
Just imagine, these idiots spend 250k to sit in a iron tube controlled by a cheap offbrand playstation controller but won’t spend any of their money to improve the world. Only satisfying their own ego and greed. I can’t feel sorry for them, best I can do is hope that they imploded so they didn’t have to suffer too long.
I’m not going to diss on Logitech, they make some good reliable controllers. I would place them bottom on the list of things that probably broke.
That being said. I can understand why someone from the outside sees a plastic controller and wonder why they didn’t go with the more expensive plastic controller. But in the end, they both have the same parts. I would also find it VERY strange that there wouldn’t be a backup controller.
Though it is hard to take pity on the situation when one has to consider. That 250k a ticket is more then 20 single mothers working 2 jobs, so they can feed their kids, so this dude can go see the titanic… in person… Because video documentaries of every angle of the titanic in 4k resolution don’t exist in 2023 apparently.
I would also find it VERY strange that there wouldn’t be a backup controller.
I find a lot of people don’t have a mindset of considering how things could go wrong. It usually works, and it’s always worked so far for them, therefore it will always work going forward. Plus, it’s just so convenient.
For example, there are people who use their phone as their car key. They simply don’t think about what happens if their phone is lost/stolen, damaged, or even just out of battery. They may or may not lessen a lesson when they get burned by it.
It’s more than a little ironic they [presumably] died in an accident caused by cutting corners on regulations and safety by saying things like “certifications cost too much time and money, we shouldn’t have to train someone just to convince them that this is safe”, as well as doing things like firing safety personnel when they object to the submersible’s worthiness.
I saw someone call it the ‘minimim viable submersible’ and I’ve never heard a better description as someone who spends all day working on minimum-viable-product style projects
💀
You fuckin know it lmao I was just reading on Twitter how they’re sending up a c-130 and some special military submersible to help with the search. Who’s paying for that? 🤷🏻♂️
Tax payers already paid for the damn thing… We might as well get some use out of it.
It’s very ironic that the wealthiest man in Pakistan and his son are going to die in a submarine when 100;s of Pakistanis just drowned trying to seek refuge from the country theses men exploited.
Its karma.
“This submersible has not been tested or approved and may cause death”
“wHeRe dO I sIgN???”
I’m not really in the business of defending billionaires but I think at least one of them, the guy who brought his son, was involved with charities:
"He works with his family’s Dawood Foundation, as well as the SETI Institute - a California-based research organisation which searches for extra-terrestrial life.
“Shahzada is also a supporter of two charities founded by King Charles - the British Asian Trust and the Prince’s Trust International.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-65955554
He sounds (sounded) like a good person… I do find it interesting that the other billionaires don’t have any mentions of charitable works in articles I’ve read in them.
Every billionaire uses charities.
They’re a way to exert control over the money that would normally go to taxes, and be up to the government to spend.
It’s not inherently bad, but charity is not quite the saving grace of billionaires that many make it out to be.
If people were willing to pay taxes and work toward equitability, charities for the poor wouldn’t be necessary.
Yep. I just want these fuckers to pay their fair share in taxes and to stop using their wealth to influence politics.
To be fair, there’s nothing wrong with using a controller to control things, off-brand or otherwise.
Both industry and the military use off-the-shelf game controllers for things, because they’re easy to obtain, ergonomic and relatively intuitive.
Although using a wireless one that was infamous for having dropout issues, without some backup mechanism that could also be used to control the submersible was probably something of a mistake. At minimum, you’d expect that they would use one that was wired, just in case someone forgot to charge the batteries before hand, and/or didn’t bring a spare.
Sure, but not for something as safety critical as the primary way to control it. There’s just so many failure modes. Imagine if one of the sticks pots failed and made them spin uncontrollably. Regardless, they had IIRC six different independent fail-safes to force them to surface. So I’m sure they put some more thought into it than people are giving them credit for.
A swedish submarine officer put it bluntly in an interview today, and i paraphrase: “most likely it developed a crack and instantly decompressed like a crushed soda can”
This is least painful/scary way for them to die. It’d be an instantaneous death.
High pressure under water does weird things
Money, money, money, mon…AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH
That’s brutal. Idk if that is a good message to throw out to the media while the families are still hopeful but as a third party I appreciate his honesty. It really highlights the risks here.
No, nor do I think they should be. There will be millions of wasted taxpayer dollars wasted on trying to recover rich people’s dead bodies. They signed a waiver and knew what they were getting into. There’s nothing to be learned from whatever happened, since the company was clearly negligent. Let them rest on the ocean floor beside the other rich assholes.
It’s kinda poetic for them to go down next to the titanic, itself a story of complacency and excess/opulance.
Darn tootin’.
At least this method of winning the darwin award is going full circle.
‘Bringing an outside entity up to speed on every innovation before it is put into real-world testing is anathema to rapid innovation.’
He hired a guy specifically to work on the safety of the sub and fired him when he raised too many concerns like the viewport not being rated for that depth.
'Lochridge learned that the viewport manufacturer would only certify to a depth of 1,300 meters due to the experimental design of the viewport supplied by OceanGate, which was out of the Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy (‘PVHO’) standards.
'OceanGate refused to pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport that would meet the required depth of 4,000 meters.
Exactly, there’s enough evidence that they’re just willfully negligent. Fuck them. The victims should have done even 5 mins of research on the company before getting in the sub.
Not only that, one look at the thing they chose to go down into the water in was enough for me to wonder what kind of hallucinogens they must’ve been on to accept that risk.
According to David Lochridge (their Director of Marine Operations who was fired and sued), the passenger viewport of the original sub (buit in 2018) was only certified for depths of up to 1,300 meters (4,265 feet), and OceanGate would not pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport certified for 4,000 meters, the depth at which the Titanic rested.
Whether that defect was corrected in this version of the sub (built 2020-21) is anyone’s guess. Meanwhile, a German entrepreneur who took a trip in this sub in 2021 reported several problems with the electrics and one dive was aborted at 1600ft. So whether these new problems were addressed (by someone who wanted to cheap out on a window) is also unknown.
4km down - I get the willies if I see more than 20 metres of water underneath me and I can’t see the bottom.
Wouldn’t the governments bill OceanGate for the rescue costs? Similar to governments billing hikers/campers when they have to send a search and rescue party and/or medivac them to a hospital?
That’s a bit harsh. If there’s anything that works in modern society pretty reliably regardless of status, it’s search and rescue. Sunk subs can also be an environmental hazard.
Sunk subs can also be an environmental hazard.
Just out of curiosity… how do you figure that a tiny sunken submersible would become a hazard, much less an environmental one?
Probably not a big deal at that depth, I mentioned it as only a general addendum. But it probably has a battery, and those tend to be removed from sunken ships and subs together with other risky chemicals if possible.
I remember the case of a ship sinking with a shipment of new cars, and they recovered every one of those cars because they didn’t want even one polluting the environment.
Regardless they’ll want to search for it for the human(e) reasons primarily anyway.
I agree woth this post. Wealth has nothing to do with this. And if they survive they can easily pay the bill.
Pretty hilarious that you think a billionaire would foot the bill if they are (or their families if they’re not) rescued.
There is no rescue in this instance, only an expensive recovery. And there are enough environmental hazards in the world at this point, that I don’t think a 5m sub on the sea floor is going to matter much. Most climbers are abandoned to their fate as they made the reckless decision to ascend, just as these people made the reckless decision to descend.
It’s still part of S&R. Lost swimmers, ships, small planes, or just people lost in the woods, there are always attempts for recovery long after any chance of survival is gone.
Yea climbers may be abandoned very high up on Everest, when there’s no safe way to bring them down. But subs, we do look for subs. Let’s not needlessly be dicks about it.
Let’s not needlessly be dicks about it.
You do you. I will be whatever I want about it however.
Jesus Christ you people are insane.
they had to sign a waiver that mentions the possibility of death 3 times on the first page to dive in a vehicle that has never been safety certified and that was criticized years ago by almost 40 experts in a letter to the CEO. who is more insane? this safety mission will cost a fortune regardless of the outcome.
Should we send rescue missions up Everest to ensure the families of rich thrill seekers get to bury their loved ones, or should we maybe put those resources into saving real, living people?
It’s unfortunate that their risky joy ride went south, but it would be an actual tragedy if we used hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of dollars of public money to maybe find a few bodies. That money should be used more efficiently helping more people who actually need it.
I’m not the one getting in a rickety submersible and paying a quarter of a million for the displeasure.
I suspect they imploded.
These super deep subs are traditionally not reused very long, because the stress of the water pressing and then releasing weakens them. The more compression-decompression cycles they take the faster they degrade.
From all the reports, they got a lot of reports of issues that they ignored. I read that one of the reporters who saw it found it to be very jury rigged together. Apparently it was not certified in any way.
Even if they did survive and the ballast worked correctly, they would surface quickly (decompression sickness?) and cannot open the hatch from the inside. The thing doesn’t float above the water, so its going to be a pain to find. Also they didn’t paint it bright orange with blinking lights, its white, gray, and blue.
Overall, a lot of poor decisions and ignoring advice lead to disaster.
Of all the various ways to provide emergency rescue assistance, it appears that they’ve included almost nothing which would help them in the event of an underwater failure that prevented surfacing (i.e. emergency ballast release failing).
Apparently it was not certified in any way
My understanding of this is limited to the two paragraphs on CNN, but there is a process for “classing” vessels. The owners decided not to do so as the process only certified that the vessel itself is safe for use, and does not verify the procedures for operation or the training of the crew. Their logic for not classing was that most ocean failures are the result of poor procedures or poor crew decisions, ignoring entirely that the reason most failures fall into those to cases is because the vessels themselves are vetted (via the classing process) to eliminate the hardware as a failure mode. It’s almost poetic that the man in charge of that decision is on the craft.
I think if they would try to resurface by something like releasing ballast only, the ship should ascent faster and faster, i think they would jump out of the water and crush into the surface of the ocean.
Also these depths are usually only explored with unmanned drones, not makeshift tuna cans with store parts
Not an expert, but I don’t think the air pressure inside the sub changes, so decompression sickness should be impossible. Don’t quote me on that, though
This would be correct. However, I suspect the air pressure in the sub did change. Very rapidly.
Unfortunately this seems the most realistic scenario.
Even if they did survive and the ballast worked correctly, they would surface quickly (decompression sickness?)
Decompression sickness is a concern only if they suffered compression. But the main problem, as I see it, is that the sub was made from materials that are famously brittle and tend to degrade over many cycles of pressure and release (resin, carbon fiber, etc). So the likely failure mode is catastrophic failure of the sub under pressure.
There’s a reason most deep sea stuff is made out of steel: it’s somewhat ductile and recovers from compression with minimal change in properties.
Negative. I don’t think we’ll even find wreckage, and if we do, reaching it will be difficult and expensive.
I’m gonna go out on limb and say they’re no longer with us.
unlikely. sub rescues are hardly successful. Their sub could have imploded, fast way to die. Had a power failure wich would takes days to die either from a lack of o2 or possibly the cold. Or it reached the surface and they got to look out at thet ocean until about noon their time tomorrow unable to open the hatch and slowly die from a lack of air.
The cognitive dissonance displayed here is appalling. So many envious and evil fucks showing zero empathy for other humans dying a terrible death just because they have more money. Jesus fuck, people. If your life view makes you that uncaring of other humans then you need to pick a new life view or start getting on submarines yourself. You sit on the internet gleefully relishing in the deaths of others like that makes you more compassionate of poor people somehow?
Gross. You people are gross.
Hundreds of migrants drowned in the Mediterranean like not even more than a few days ago and I’ve seen at least 20x more of this kind of sentiment for a handful of rich dudes that wanted to go visit the titanic in a un-certified pringles can created by a company that recently fired it’s director of marine operations because he wouldn’t sign off on the safety of this thing. Their company website says they are not certified because certification impedes innovation 😵💫
Like I saw on Twitter yesterday these dudes are the deadest that anyone has ever been, whether you cry-yell at people on the internet for not being sufficiently crestfallen or not
It’s amazing how much manufactured empathy you can buy with money
With the current situation, no. If by some miracle they can restore communication to the surface then they might be able to call for help to pinpoint their location, otherwise it’s likely death for them.
nope. with the amount of time they’ve been down there so far and the volume of space inside the thing, they would have exhaled enough CO2 to have all at least lost consciousness if not suffocated
I thought I read they had CO2 scrubbers and enough o2 to extend their life support to 96 hours or so, is that not the case?
Though thinking, if they lost power the scrubbers won’t function without manually pumping air through and who knows if that’s a possibility. I would specify two backups for the scrubber power along with other mitigation, but the way this has gone I am confident they have nothing like that.
My guess is no. The delay in getting the search up and running. Time to search. Something went wrong, likely that didn’t help them live. I’m sure they’ll find the coffin and recover it.
I would say that all reasonable efforts should be made to rescue or recover anyone and everyone who has gone missing. We can figure out the rest once we exhaust all optons, or have them back on the boat.
Reasonable efforts? Is it reasonable to send out several militaries and spend endless taxpayer money to rescue a bunch of idiots out joyriding?
To me it seems like a good “excuse” for an exercise for those militaries?
I agree. The value isn’t necessarily the recovery of the individuals (though, cool bonus if possible.) The value is a real S&R mission for the parties involved, as well as data relating to how exactly the sub failed
Unrelated note, on the off chance that these people are rescued, I imagine reading these comment threads about this event is going to be fuckin WILD
Don’t give Russians any ideas or they’ll use it next. “We didn’t invade Ukraine, it’s actually a rescue operation.”
That’s literally what they said. They were rescuing people in the Donbas region from neo-nazis
There is value to the military to use this exercise as a training mechanism for future search and rescue initiatives like on military subs. The experience of doing a real search and rescue in extreme conditions is more valuable than a drill or simulation from what I’ve been told.
Hard to tell, it’s all about luck at this point. Latest news are
"Canadian P-3 aircraft detected underwater noises in the search area," the U.S. Coast Guard tweeted early Wednesday morning. "As a result, ROV operations were relocated in an attempt to explore the origin of the noises. Those ROV searches have yielded negative results but continue."The data from the P-3 has been shared with U.S. Navy experts for further analysis, the Coast Guard added.
