MovingThrowaway [none/use name]

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Joined 2 months ago
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Cake day: April 22nd, 2024

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  • Because pretending either of these parties have wide support of the working class is disingenuous at best. You have to drastically move the goalposts to try and retain any claim to truth.

    Low voter turnout suggests that some segment of potential voters don’t support the given options. If voter turnout was 20% would you still think your adjusted claim is identical to your original? “When [some subsection of the working class] chooses to vote, it votes for one of the only two real options” borders on tautology.

    Not to mention the extant parties have a duopoly over electoral institutions, meaning it’s illogical to assume that even the people that do vote necessarily support either party, rather than voting for whichever one they find less bad.




  • The tweet is saying the same thing you are with a different framing.

    From most people’s perspectives, things are not working as intended. A working class person might be inclined to say things are upside down or they live in a backwards world (I’ve heard this a lot).

    A hundred people lose their jobs while their CEO gets a bonus, ten thousand people lose their homes while the banks get bailed out, ten million people starve while the world produces an overabundance of food. No normal empathetic person would call this rational.

    The tweet effectively explains that while the world is irrational from any reasonable perspective, it’s not chaotic or unorganized, it’s this way for a reason, and that reason is to protect the institution of private property. This logic, this subjective valuation of property above all else, makes sense only from the perspective of the bourgeoisie, a minute fraction of people.

    The state suppressing class war is one of many ways bourgeois subjectivity gets reproduced and enforced at the expense of working class subjectivity (a subjectivity so broad compared to the statistically miniscule bourgeoisie that it arguably verges on objective truth).









  • I’ve heard it with varying degrees of the R sound. There’s a common shorthand “bougie” (BOO-zhee) that people often hear before learning the original term, so they’ll maintain the pronunciation into BOO-zhwa.

    Sometimes the R is slightly swallowed so it sounds more like BOH-zhwa, maybe very light throat vocalization. Or people skip over it and it’s buh-ZHWA. Some commit fully for BOR-zhwa.

    Universally seems to maintain (my non-native understanding of) the French “oi” and silent S.

    I have yet to hear anyone pronounce it correctly: bor-gee-oice.


  • It’s late and I’m about to head to bed, but to quickly reply: this is ultimately just a categorical discussion, so if you feel ltv is a necessary quality to the essence of Marxism that’s fine, I just think the label can be used in plenty of ltv-agnostic ways. To me the useful essence of a label like that is to describe an intensity of associations that can be directed or used to direct energy effectively, rather than a strict categorical structure. There’s simply no context where I’ll dismiss or disassociate from a person or idea that doesn’t claim one facet of Marxism, in theory or in practise, due to a categorical claim.

    You bring up some good points which I’ll engage with later if I remember.


  • Eh ltv isn’t really Marx’s and if it were it would be one of his many significant contributions to various fields. It’d still be reasonable to call yourself a Marxist if you ascribe to other parts of his framework, especially in specific academic contexts. And in revolutionary contexts I doubt most non-academic revolutionaries fully understand the mechanisms laid out in Capital, so it seems inconsequential really. Class analysis doesn’t inherently require ltv either.

    I do think ltv makes more sense than modern models, but Marx was basically using bourgeois theory to critique itself, and arguably the same can be done using the more abstract modern models.