President Joe Biden says there's an extremist movement that doesn't share the basic beliefs of democracy.

President Joe Biden is arguing that ā€œthere is something dangerous happening in Americaā€ as he revives his warnings that Donald Trump and his allies represent an existential threat to the countryā€™s democratic institutions.

ā€œThere is an extremist movement that does not share the basic beliefs of our democracy. The MAGA movement,ā€ Biden says in excerpts of the speech Thursday in Arizona, released in advance by the White House, referring Trumpā€™s Make America Great Again slogan.

Although voting in the 2024 Republican primary doesnā€™t begin for months, Bidenā€™s focus reflects Trumpā€™s status as the undisputed frontrunner for his partyā€™s nomination despite facing four indictments, two of them related to his attempts to overturn Bidenā€™s victory in the 2020 election.

  • Jeremy [Iowa]English
    1Ā·
    9 months ago

    No, Iā€™m only describing the spoiler effect here.

    Then the question still applies: in what way would a spoiler increase the count of either establishment candidate? My understanding of basic math is that it cannot.

    It would be more irrational, because if the ā€œshoot me in the leg, I guessā€ party loses, everyone dies, and nobody gets to have opinions about anything ever again.

    Thatā€™s certainly one opinion on the matterā€¦ coincidentally one perfectly aligned with a partisan propaganda viewpoint and, thus far, is nothing but alarmist hyperbole.

    I think we can both agree that voting to avoid bad outcomes rather than to select good ones is fucked.

    We sure can.

    • oneiros@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      11Ā·
      9 months ago

      Then the question still applies: in what way would a spoiler increase the count of either establishment candidate? My understanding of basic math is that it cannot.

      Correct, and to claim otherwise would be absurd. Have I done that? The absolute count of votes is immaterial. Elections are decided by the proportion of votes cast for each candidate. Thatā€™s what admits the spoiler effect. Thanks, FPTP.

      Thatā€™s certainly one opinion on the matterā€¦ coincidentally one perfectly aligned with a partisan propaganda viewpoint and, thus far, is nothing but alarmist hyperbole.

      Itā€™s no coincidence. This is the means by which the establishment perpetuates itself. Doesnā€™t mean both parties are the same.

      Iā€™m tapping out after this, but I appreciated the discussion. Have a great weekend.

      • Jeremy [Iowa]English
        1Ā·
        9 months ago

        Elections are decided by the proportion of votes cast for each candidate. Thatā€™s what admits the spoiler effect. Thanks, FPTP.

        Sure, letā€™s play that game.

        Candidate A: 50/100 Candidate B: 50/100 Candidate C: 0/100

        If one abstains, there is no impact: Either candidate has 50/100 = 50%.

        If one votes Candidate C, there is no impact: Candidate A and Candidate B are now both at 50/101 = 49.5%.

        There is no spoiler.

        Itā€™s no coincidence. This is the means by which the establishment perpetuates itself. Doesnā€™t mean both parties are the same.

        Sure, and Iā€™m not saying both parties are the same.

        Iā€™m saying one isnā€™t obligated to vote for Party A for them merely being less awful than Party B - that doing so perpetuates the awfulness of either party; that trying to convince voters to do so is to perpetuate the awfulness of a given party.

        You, too.