This is not a comparison between Tildes and Beehaw. The question really is what constitutes a safe space, but looking at them side by side was at made me think about this issue. I’m new in both communities and I’m aware that they are in a state of adaptation with all the newcomers, something to keep in mind. Another detail to be considered is that the space I talk about is the limitations (rules and guidelines) in which the community can exist to create their own culture.
Firstly, Tildes is not a safe space and doesn’t intend to be. It’s far from being a free for all with rampant toxicity either. You go there if you want to have healthy discussions with people that know better than to cross the line when expressing themselves. That line, though, is more defined by practical consequences. You derail the conversation into something that goes in the direction of nasty and it will be cut down.
At Beehaw, I see a desire to avoid unnecessary grief. A user might have a bad day and say something in a way that rubs others the wrong way, but that will not be the norm and I imagine it’s expected that people will take notice when called out.
Both places incentive productive discussions, but Beehaw puts its users well being above all else. I believe there’s a gap between the two that can’t be filled by anything else. I think this gap is what is necessary to create a safe space. No fuzzy line that can easily be crossed, but a ditch.
With all that said, in a somewhat obvious way, I see safe spaces defined by how you make the people inside it feel. Basically, safe to exist and safe to engage. A space in which you don’t have to fear being hurt, even if that’s an impossible guarantee. In a safe space, if things go bad, there will be plenty that have your back.
Hostile spaces, on the other hand, are marked by the lack of care for safety. The world is a dangerous place and you should just deal with it or stay locked at home.
That’s probably enough from me. What are your thoughts? What do you look for in a safe space for discussions? And how do you know if you are in the right place?
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Rules are somewhat like laws: most of them have been written in blood, the blood of those harmed by the lack of those laws before they got written.
People starting a community and pushing some rules to the forefront, have likely been burned before by the lack of those rules, so they put them thinking that will turn the new community into something they want to be part of. That is, until they realize there have been some other rules missing, and they get burned again, and the rulebook keeps growing and growing.
Same thing happens with laws, only people don’t switch communities as easily, so we end up with both contradictory laws, people pushing laws off and into the book all the time… and thus, politics.
We shall be grateful for virtual communities to be easier to switch between.
OK. I hear you, but I want to understand better before I make any argument. Why do you personally think safe spaces are unnecessary? As I said before, the space I talk about are the rules. Do you apply the same sentiment to the world in general, as in rules are not necessary?
I can answer a part. I’ve stopped interacting with many people in real life because their rules were say centered around stealing or some other issue in a way that it felt like they expected a person to steal or do that thing by default.
I just wasn’t comfortable working with people in whose mental model everyone was a theif unless disincentivised.
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Thank you for going deeper. I see now the issue with gatekeeping. You’re right, it is gatekeeping. We can express it in a more positive way, but the point is exactly not letting in people that might harm the community. As your said, it will repel potential members that would be good additions. In the future, when the community is strong enough and is able to deal with bad elements effectively, the gates won’t be that guarded.
About some things not always being clear cut, it is not that big of a issue. Saying something that sounds xenophobic is dangerous because the lack of context is only beneficial to the ones that want to cause harm. My response to the comment would be asking for clarification, but that’s my privilege, there’s no risk to me. Imagine if I’m the foreigner in the country and there’s a growing aggression against my people. I fear for my integrity and the law might be too late to protect me. A comment saying that they wish there were more people talking the local language becomes suspicious in this situation.
Imagine that someone can’t identify who I am and say I deserve to be hurt. Should I alert them I’m the one they’re taking about? What if it’s a whole room talking like that? What if it’s ten percent of a room expressing this feeling and the rest doesn’t care?
These questions are not to prove a point, but to explain the reasons for the creation of safe spaces. So we are sure the room is not quietly agreeing.
I saw a lot of comments complaining about having to answer some questions before signing up to specific instances. Not that they were rejected, but having to apply. The question is: “Are you a decent person?”. Anyone could lie, but the question is enough to show harmful behavior is not allowed and that we’ll not be silent just because we aren’t the victim of the day.