HA… you think that Libertarians are independent voters? American brand Libretarianism is ultra conservative and the very definition of “rules for thee not me”.
I was just thinking “rules for thee…” the other day when I almost got sideswiped by a F-250 with a big no-step-on-snek sticker on the tailgate. Was just sitting still in the middle lane at a light and this guy nearly hits me zipping by in the right turn lane. He, of course, doesn’t stop on red and just immediately turns right.
Couldn’t care less that his 10,000 lbs, lifted, moron dozor was sticking a foot and a half out of his lane.
Anywhoo, I know that’s a stupid, odd story. But that’s just an example of how these assholes live their lives. Everything, even the smallest and most common sense rules, like staying in your lane, are for suckers, not them.
this is honestly why I day dream about commuting in an Abrams tank during my commute. 6/10 times I’m being tailgated it’s a big ass truck. the other 4/10 are usually something like a Beamer that can’t fathom that… traffic happens.
65 tons of “Freedom” causes people to back off… I’d imagine… (the other slightly more realistic thought is getting a windshield-fluid tank and pump, setting a nozzle to squirt back and up. Load it with something like stink bombs.)
The issue with the latter approach is that in some regions of some states, you’re liable to get shot if you try something like that.
Oh. That’s not the draw back. The draw back is when it causes them to veer into other cars creating a massive accident.
Liability is a bitch.
Cutting in line is their entire identity. Just straight up assholes.
it’s like… republicans, but with weed.
Libertarians are just Republicans that don’t want to be labeled as a Republican.
In other words: conservative edgelords
And they have the intellectual and ethical maturity of kindergarteners, so they’ll eat him up.
From “we only want to pay for what we want, and especially if it hurts the people we don’t like” to “we don’t want to pay for anything at all yet somehow expect to keep all our modern conveniences working in a fashion other than a farmhouse in 1810 while we expect corporations to do the right thing.”
It’s not surprising at all.
The Libertarian party has never been particularly libertarian (I discovered that when I briefly worked for them back in the '80s).
For a while there, through the 90s, the libertarian movement in the US was still relatively libertarian, which is to say, advocates for the liberty of each and all, and it was fairly common to see a distinction made between “libertarians” - advocates of the ideology - and “Libertarians” - followers of the party, who were pretty much just misled idealists and the opportunists who were misleading them.
That all started to change with 9/11 and the Bush presidency, as the movement as a whole started shifting toward right-wing authoritarianism and the party stopped pretending that it had ever been anything else.
Even then though, there was still a vestige of true libertarianism here and there.
That ended though when the GOP co-opted the Tea Party movement and transformed it from a series of protests against Bush’s Wall Street bailouts to a traveling right-wing carnival of hate. Virtually overnight, any pretense that US libertarians valued individual liberty (other than their own) entirely vanished, and the few remaining genuine advocates of liberty abandoned the movement.
At this point, the US libertarian movement as a whole has morphed entirely into an especially toxic version of right-wing authoritarianism, and I would fully expect them to support whoever seems most likely to let them shoot people. And that’s Trump.
Perhaps it was pre McCarthyism. Though even that would be stretching it. Perhaps McCarthyism helped them coopt what was a solidly left wing ideology. As actual ideological libertarians are against the concept of a party pushing their ideals onto others. Which is just another red flag that American libertarians aren’t.
The idea of a libertarian party has always been a bit self-contradictory, though not entirely. The basic idea of libertarianism (narrowly defined - not the broader use of the term in things like the political compass) is specifically to minimize but not entirely eliminate government. That’s what distinguishes it from anarchism.
So there’s necessarily an immediate issue - which specific functions of government need to be kept in its minimized form? And that’s where a party (or something like it) can legitimately come into play. It’s still a bit self-defeating though, since such a party obviously should be sharply limited in scope and influence, but that’s not the nature of hierarchical organizations. It’s not that the idea is immediately contrary to the espoused ideals of the movement, but that it pretty much inevitably will one day grow into something that is.
I don’t and never have held with no-true-scotsmanning the supposed wing alignment of whatever it is that one or another person thinks needs to be kept in a “libertarian” system. I always leaned much more toward the left than the right as far as that goes, but I never felt any particular threat from those (the majority even 40 or 50 years ago) who leaned to the right more than the left. Like me, they were fundamentally simply opposed to the whole idea of institutionalized hierarchy, but believed that some amount of it was unavoidable, so they, like me, were prepared to argue for their preference, rather than just taking the fundamentally authoritarian position of, “This is the way it’s going to be because we say so, and if you oppose us, we’ll shoot you.”
I think that the transition to the latter stage was inevitable regardless of which wing the US movement leaned toward. It’s not really a trait of the right or the left per se, but a trait of the dominant group, when it’s reached the point that its dominance is so well-established that it comes to be seen as a justified state rightfully defended. And unfortunately, as history has shown repeatedly, both political wings are entirely able to reach that point, and at that point, the specific ideology doesn’t even really matter any more, since the actual point of the organization is protecting and furthering its own privilege and power, and ideology just determines the rhetoric with which they surround that entirely self-serving endeavour.
Or more simply, I think that if US libertarianism had come to be dominated by left-wingers rather than right-wingers, it’s likely that all that would mean in the long run is that the current version of it would be dominated by tankies instead of… whatever the current lot should be called (neo-feudalists? anarcho-fascists? gun nuts? mall ninjas?)
No. That’s anarchism and only the most intransigent ideological wings of it at that. That in no way describes libertarianism as originally outlined. It was about maximizing social freedom. As well as public ownership of natural resources. Something right wing Libertarians abhor in practice.
And no there is not a no true Scotsman conundrum when it comes to right wing libertarianism. You cannot be both capitalist and actually libertarian. Capitalists and right wing libertarians reject public ownership of natural resources. And have replaced freedom. With an imaginary concept of personal freedom. No freedom is personal. Freedom belongs to everyone or it isn’t freedom. If it belongs to you personally, it’s called privilege. And if something is a freedom. And anyone is unable to access it. Then they are being denied their freedoms. It’s a basic core incompatibility.
American libertarians are conservatives who don’t like that label, and have a big stick up their butts about taxes.
So… conservatives…
I can see Mitt Romney / Mike Pence “anti-Trump” GOP doing a hostile takeover of the existing Libertarian Party. the Libertarians have less than 2 million members according to the Wiki. Leave the Party of Lincoln to the MAGoos.
naw. trump ‘speaking’ at any convention will never not be weird to me.
It doesn’t even sound a little bit weird. I used to be LP, I know these people.
Why would it be weird for the head of the GOP to speak to his primary voter base?
Is there some presumption that the flag waving, shit smearing, gallows erecting folks at Jan 6 are somehow different? Or is this the part where everyone pretends that libertarianism is a legit political movement that was co-opted or some shit by “others”?
Cause it sounds a lot like it’s selfish white folks stretching language as far as they can to give air cover to being selfish.
Trump has photos with Epstein. So, they might at least agree on lowering age of consent.
