Like, the only reason countries exist is because some rich guys decided that they ruled this chunk of land, and everyone else just kinda said “Yeah, whatever, I don’t really give a shit, just let me farm and leave me the fuck alone”.
Then the rich guy on the next bit of land said “I want a bit of what he’s got going on”, and before we knew it, all the bits of land were ruled by people who’s only claim to them was that they were the first to have the idea.
Fast forward a few thousand years, and some of the bits of land are ruled by people who wear gold hats and spout a load of bollocks about divine right, while some of the bits of land are ruled by people who convinced the rest of the people to let them do it, and really, there’s no difference between, like, France and Spain, but some old dudes drew a line and said “Nah, that bit speaks this version of a language, and that bit speaks another version of it”.
You ever think about that?
Yeah 100%. Mohawk Interruptus by Native scholar Audra Simpson is a must-read piece of scholarship on this topic. If you’ve never thought about this before, it will literally blow your entire mind. Highly recommend.
Territory is a concept that transcends the human species; it’s not all that weird. We simply don’t do it by rubbing our scent glands on stumps and rocks.
To say that there’s no difference between France and Spain is a bit disingenuous. Outside of colonialism, the lines are less arbitrarily drawn and moreso organically evolved along with language and culture in a context where wide communication is rare. That and fighting for control, of course.
It sucks that we don’t have universal peace such that borders are unnecessary, but that’s life down to the simplest organism. Governments need borders, and shitty as they are it’s our only path toward societies that are more fair than pure natural competition.
Not just territory, but social stratification and ingroup-outgroup dynamics are present in nearly every social species of animal. Some are more strict and/or violent about it, but everything from fish to birds to other primate species have social hierarchies, a concept of territory, and a willingness to fight over both. Great apes have been documented conducting violent wars with other troupes over territory and resources.
I have to say that I’ve always found the argument that “X is an tool of control by the rich!” to be reductive. The implicit (or sometimes explicit) corollary is that “X” is therefore arbitrary, artificial, and bad, whereas I tend to think that usually inverts cause and effect. “X,” whether it’s social hierarchies, the concept of property ownership, or in this case territorial boundaries, are more often than not rooted in some innate social instinct that can often be found not just in people but throughout the animal kingdom. The powers-that-be may well be manipulating those behaviors to their benefit, but that doesn’t mean that the solution is to deny that they are innate and claim that we can make a better society if we could only ignore them hard enough. You have to make changes keeping in mind the limitations of the human mind and behavior if you want to create a viable real-world solution.
Not only is it reductive, but it’s also a rather lacking analysis in terms of richness.
As you say, territorialism and social hierarchies is common.
Animals don’t value each other on the basis of their bank accounts, and neither did humans.
Money and wealth are fairly modern concepts. So are nations, but the point I’m trying to make is that we divided land into territories long before wealth had anything to do about it.
And while having territories definitely cause some issues it also creates a common cause. If it’s your household, your neighborhood, your municipality, your county, your nation, or your continent.
But as always, the further close to home the more engaged we are. You are more invested in keeping your house clean than the street outside of it.
Democracy works the same, and it works better on lower levels. On national levels it seems to work less and less.
I think the founding of civilizations was a big step for humanity and made us progress impressively. The whole thing works because we organize, delegate and collaborate. I guess it sort of follows that organized groups will share the territory among each other and agree on frontiers. Of course there’s been a lot of evil done over territorial conflicts, but I don’t think it’s intrinsic that frontiers are evil. It’s just where the shit plays out.
Sometimes borders represent the differences between groups of people and what they find important on a range of issues including trade, security, and how they choose to govern themselves. (When those people aren’t being forsably ruled.)
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On a podcast called Motherfoclóir (it’s about language) someone said something like “the only difference between a dialect and a language is an army.”
I’ve been very slowly reading a book called “The Dawn of Everything” by David Graeber and David Wengrow. It has mostly covered agriculture so far, and has challenged the idea that caveman is less than hunter gatherer which is less than farming. But it has also noted how evidence shows just how fluid people were with where they lived for so long.
For so much of humanity people have just decided that they weren’t happy with where they were living and would just up and leave or travel or visit distant people who recognized them as relatives. For some reason in the time since we have culturally decided that money and property are paramount and that dedication to accumulation of things makes us less able to move around. Hard governmental borders and property existed then too, it just wasn’t the nearly universally agreed upon method of existing.
I’ve enjoyed the book so far and I would recommend it if you are open to reading non-fiction, I think it gets pretty close to this topic and might even cover it too
Well, it certainly challenges many aspects of how I think about the very-long-ago past. Looking at the contents of the book and the work of David Graeber in general, this just became the book I will start reading after I finish the current one. Thanks for the very interesting suggestion!
