100%
My psych unit used to have an amazing collaborative relationship with hospital security. Basically they would select the chillest security people to send to sit on our unit in 24/7 shifts. A lot of them were amazing verbal deescalators even if just by not responding when patients say dumb shit hoping to get a rise (especially racial or gendered slurs).
Now our security department is sending a bunch of former COs and LEOs and it’s like pulling teeth to explain proper violence prevention, especially in this specific environment. A bunch of them think they need to buck up with competitive aggression at patients who start shit to prove they’re tougher and I often struggle to explain to them that true displays of strength and control over the situation are much more subtle.
For example, one of my bigger power moves (especially for patients who give me a strong bark over bite vibe) is to have security wait beside the door and just out of sight outside the room. So if they do start swinging my backup is literally right there, but from the patient perspective, I’m comfortable and confident that I can defend myself (and I’ve developed a subtle swagger/relaxed gait and posture over the years to sell it too). No yelling or bucking up or threatening needed. Just a subtly firm and consistent “I ain’t worried about you doing anything I can’t handle.”
A lot of people also comment on how close I’m willing to stand to patients but a lot of these people don’t have enough situational awareness to intuit how close they can get and when. Like obviously when they’re yelling at you is not the time to step up on them to get a blood pressure reading? But even when they’re yelling at me about a foot or so beyond arm’s reach is fine, especially if your backup is already there.
Honestly (while this is definitely not the most important facet of this situation) this guy is actually making these cops less safe to boot. Creating a fundamentally adversarial relationship with the people they’re (supposed to be) protecting is creating a far more dangerous situation for everyone in the long run.
Creating a fundamentally adversarial relationship with the people they’re (supposed to be) protecting
Fundamental misunderstanding as to the role of police in a capitalist society. They’re not there to protect you, they’re there to enforce laws which are designed to maintain the structure. It doesn’t matter how friendly and nice a cop is when they’re called to carry out an eviction, to haul off a worker who assaulted a business owner who refused to pay them, or put down a protest.
Oh I’m aware of this; I just also happen to have more of a perspective than most on high stakes verbal negotiation, especially in the context of mental illness, so I naturally choose to speak specifically on the part of the problem I have the most knowledge about and what I have found to be the specific solution. Not gonna say I’m perfect at that, but internet culture could stand to do that a lot more as a whole.
But he is making money, isn’t that more important than safety?
deleted by creator
When people say police just need “more training,” remember that this is the training they’ll be getting.
I helped actively resist his killology training seminars in Spokane, WA a few years ago. We really had no idea if it would work out, but the collective efforts of activists, organizers, the general public, and city council caused him to no-show at his own event.
There’s fairly little news on the details of how it all went down, but here’s a good article leading up to the seminar that accurately accounts all the major details:
Spokane City Council condemns controversial ‘killology’ police training
If Grossman shows up to your community, you can resist him and win.
It’s not that guy. It’s the people that hire him. I mean sure, that dude’s a fucking asshole. But the system that enables him is far more to blame.
Can we just blame them all? Address the symptoms and the disease.
I once dropped a comment about Grossman’s killology courses at a lunch with a supervisor who voted trump.
I have rarely taken such pleasure in completely killing the vibe.
Cherry on top, was later made her equal.
Before I get any jokes, nobody clapped. It was a long, horrible road getting out from under her thumb.
Give a coward a gun and a badge, and you end up with people getting shot for nothing. These clowns wouldn’t last a week in any European police force.
John Oliver had a great bit on this. 30 minutes but it’s worth it.
NSFW language.
thanks
Ugh, this shitbag is the example of how military combat skills do not translate to civilian policing. Some DS screaming “KILL! KILL! KILL!” in your ear while you chew mud and practice stabbing things has absofuckinglutley nothing to do with traffic laws or community involvement, it’s all meant to make you nothing but a govt issued weapon. This asshole teaches his horseshit, then we give them all MRAPs and wonder why they’re rolling up to BLM protests like the convoy that steamrolled Baghdad. I don’t know if our cop problems will ever be solved but he is directly responsible for making it worse.
FUCK YOU DAVE
This is the first related article I saw when googling his name. If someone has a better source feel free to share
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-class-dave-grossman-killology.html
John Oliver had a great bit on this. 30 minutes but it’s worth it.
NSFW language.
Gross man.
Surname checks out.
He looks like a famished premature baby
So, not ACAB, just this one guy? Honestly, there’s plenty of people to blame.
Surely fascism needs tinder to already be dry, but it’s always one that sparks that dry tinder. All it took was one paranoid nutjob in the 1970s to convince an entire church apparatus that rock ‘n’ rock was satanic with backwards messages, one asshole setting a dozen assholes on fire, then each of those set another dozen on fire, etc.
By the way, that original “rock is satanic” guy, he checked himself into a mental institution and was cured of his delusion. But the damage was already done, an entire church had taken his mentally-ill pronouncements at face value.
Same with self-hating closeted homosexuals on the evangelical pulpit or the republican party, they may come and go, but their hate-filled message remains and gets amplified, because oh look… here comes another one of those rabidly self-hating closeted homosexual preacher man/congressman, one after another, and another, and another, an eternal godless, joyless, bible-thumping parade.
The problem is there are a lot of people like this guy. Then one guy says it out loud and everyone’s like yeah, we’re the victims, we need to oppress someone to feel strong. If it weren’t there would be a backlash from within, but this is the USA.
Same thing is happening with Trump, Musk, and every other cult.
Let your hate flow through but to be open about it, you have to have someone with power give you a little nudge.
Of course he’s just scumbag, but you don’t blame a single person for a national failure that goes back centuries.
If cops lost their badges for any unjustified killing, if cops were locked up for manslaughter or murder whenever they killed someone unnecessarily, the death count would drop overnight. Systemic problems requires systemic solutions, and we know exactly what to do. The problem is making it happen.
Say what you want about the guy, but he’s appropriately named.
