• slurpyslop@kbin.social
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    6 months ago

    The ICC has never stopped a genocide in its entire existence

    What genocide has the US stopped since the creation of the ICC?

    UN action is equally useless

    The UN absolutely has teeth. It just can’t use them because Biden can’t stop vetoing them.

    As a last point, voting for a candidate doesn’t mean you support all of that candidates actions or views.

    If somebody hates racism, but gets tricked into voting for Trump by Black Voices for Trump, would you say they’re voting in support of racism or not?

    you disagree about that one point

    It’s almost comical that you can be so flippant about genocide. “It’s just one genocide guys, come on.”

    That’s why Republicans do so well; Republican voters have one or two issues they agree with passionately

    So you’re arguing it’s good to be a single issue voter?

    On the other hand progressives/leftists/whatever pick a hill to die on

    So you’re arguing it’s bad to be a single issue voter?

    • bobburger@fedia.io
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      6 months ago

      They are two different kinds of single issue voters.

      Republican single issue voters get their get their candidate elected by strongly supporting them because of a single issue.

      Progressives also help get the Republican candidate elected by refusing to vote for Biden because they strongly oppose one issue.

      The neat part is the progressive is helping the Republican get elected who is usually even farther off the issue than the Democratic candidate.

      But hey, the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS THE GENOCIDE™. If you don’t vote for Biden The Genocide™ will stop instantly and you’ll be guilt free because you didn’t vote for it. But at the same time you won’t have to feel guilt for any of the bad shit that comes with a Trump presidency for reasons.

      If somebody hates racism, but gets tricked into voting for Trump by Black Voices for Trump, would you say they’re voting in support of racism or not?

      I can’t say what they are voting in support of regardless of how they vote. That was painfully clear. I’ll say it explicitly: voting for a candidate doesn’t mean you support any of the candidates positions. It just means more of their positions align with yours than the other candidate.

      Do you think neo-nazis that want the death penalty for race mixing support Trump’s brand of racism? Or do you think they’re voting for Trump because they know he’s closer to what they want than Biden and they know their 3rd party candidate has no shot of ever getting elected?

      The UN will save them!

      Tell that to the Rohingya.

      • slurpyslop@kbin.social
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        6 months ago

        They are two different kinds of single issue voters.

        this all started from mental gymnastics, and you’re currently trying to straight up claim that single issue voters are in general effective for the republicans but ineffective for the democrats because…reasons…?

        I’ll say it explicitly: voting for a candidate doesn’t mean you support any of the candidates positions

        For the record, you’re still strawmanning my position, as you have been the entire time. I don’t know whether this is out of malice or a plain failure of comprehension, but—again—voting in support of something is not the same as supporting it. Your neo-nazis are voting in support of Trump’s specific brand of racism.

        That said, your response to the hypothetical means you believe your intention is the only important thing in how you exercise your voting right. In which case, what are we doing here? People who aren’t voting for Biden because of his stance on Palestine aren’t intending to get Trump elected, so they’re blameless, right?

        Tell that to the Rohingya.

        The US also didn’t save them, so I don’t know what point you’re trying to make here.

        • bobburger@fedia.io
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          6 months ago

          The mental gymnastics you’re doing to dodge these very simple and straightforward points would make Neo in the matrix proud.

          this all started from mental gymnastics, and you’re currently trying to straight up claim that single issue voters are in general effective for the republicans but ineffective for the democrats because…reasons…?

          It’s a pretty simple concept. I’ll use a pizza analogy since kids love pizza.

          Republican voters love pineapple on pizza, but we don’t have any pineapple pizza. The Republican voter says “that’s okay, I’ll have the supreme pizza because it’s pretty close”. So the single issue Republican voter gets pizza and the Republican candidate gets elected.

          Progressives voters love anchovies on pizza, but we don’t have anchovy pizza, we only have pepperoni pizza. The progressive voter says “fuck off, I don’t want your shitty pizza without anchovies” and then shits all over the pizza. So the progressive single issue voter gets no pizza, no one else gets pizza, and the Democratic candidate doesn’t get elected.

          In this case eating pizza is voting for the candidate, not eating the pizza is not voting for the candidate. The Republican single issue voter votes and helps the Republican get elected. The progressive single issue voter doesn’t vote, doesn’t help the Democratic candidate get elected, and since we have first past the post elections in America he helps the Republican get elected.

          If you want to pretend like you still don’t get I understand. You’ve intentionally missed the basic concept so many times that you it would be pretty silly to admit you understand now.

          • slurpyslop@kbin.social
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            6 months ago

            The Republican voter says “that’s okay, I’ll have the supreme pizza because it’s pretty close”. So the single issue Republican voter gets pizza and the Republican candidate gets elected.

            compromise with a middle ground is literally the opposite of single issue and it’s insane that you’re still trying to pretend it isn’t

            single issue isn’t “ham is kind of like pepperoni”

            single issue is “pepperoni or i don’t eat pizza”

            republican voters only want pepperoni

            • bobburger@fedia.io
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              6 months ago

              I think we’re very close, I now have hope we can get on the same page with this at least.

              There are two types of single issue voters. We’ll call them type 1 and type 2. We call them single issue voters because it is a single issue driving their voting choice.

              Type 1 single issue voters care a lot about an issue. So they vote for which ever candidate is closest to their view on that issue. They compromise on that issue and their other views to vote for whoever is closest. These single issue voters help their candidate win.

              Type 2 single issue voters also care a lot about one issue. Except if a candidate disagrees with their view even a little bit, they refuse to vote for the candidate. Even if the voter and the candidate agree on nearly everything else, this single issue prevents the voter from casting a vote for the candidate. These single issue voters help the candidates opponent to win.

              A lot of Republican voters are type 1 single issue voter.s

              A lot of progressives are type 2 single issue voters.

              An example (or a strawman if you prefer):

              I’m a type 1 single issue voter. I disagree with Joe Biden on many issues, but I vote for him because he’s closest to my views on climate change. So I vote for Joe Biden in support of my goals for climate change. I am helping Joe Biden win. (I’m not really a single issue voter, but this is a strawman)

              You are a type 2 single issue voter. You oppose The Genocide™, so you are abstaining from voting (or maybe voting 3rd party because the 3rd party candidates have never had to decide whether or not to support The Genocide™). Because we have a first past the post voting system, and you were a potential vote for Biden, you are helping Trump win.

              I don’t know if you would vote for Biden if Israel hadn’t invaded Gaza, but I think you get the point . It is after all a simplified example intended to quickly convey a point.

              • slurpyslop@kbin.social
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                6 months ago

                They compromise on that issue and their other views to vote for whoever is closest.

                so hypothetically, you think single-issue gun control republicans are willing to compromise on gun control?

                or a strawman if you prefer

                literally not even the part you were strawmanning and you very obviously know that

                you mysteriously dropped that half of your argument idk why

                • bobburger@fedia.io
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                  6 months ago

                  so hypothetically, you think single-issue gun control republicans are willing to compromise on gun control?

                  Exactly, I think you got it. A single issue gun control voter wants less gun control. Say they want to be able to own fully automatic rifles. Trump doesn’t want people owning fully automatic rifles, he doesn’t even want bump stocks to be legal. Trump however is more lenient on other aspects of gun control, certainly more lenient than Biden. They may agree more with Biden on immigration, or abortion, or taxes, but they agree most with Trump on the other issues so they vote for Trump.

                  So we have one type of single issue voter that is good for Republicans, and one type of single issue voter that is bad for Democrats.

                  you mysteriously dropped that half of your argument idk why

                  We’ll figure out the other parts of the argument once we have this simple thing settled.

                  • slurpyslop@kbin.social
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                    6 months ago

                    Exactly, I think you got it.

                    trump tried to enact a little bit of gun control, it was basically the only thing his voter base ever pushed back on, but they pushed back very hard, and he very quickly dropped it

                    so demonstrably your understanding of republicans is wrong, so i don’t know where this leaves you