• Dasus@lemmy.world
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    24 days ago

    This guy does literally nothing but tell people how Democrats are awful people (and implies you shouldn’t vote for them)

    TONS of posts like that.

    I really wouldn’t be surprised to find out he’s Russian.

    No-one is supporting genocide. If people don’t vote for Biden (and even if they do, the popular vote might not be enough), Trump will win.

    The only case where saying “don’t vote for Biden” would be if Trump was actually a better, smarter, more emphatic president, and would use the US’s power to instantly stop helping Israel.

    And who exactly thinks that’s even possible in any scenario or even parallel universe?

    Not voting for Biden would be like being a pro-Hitler British person in 1939.

    • bobburger@fedia.io
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      24 days ago

      He’s a voter suppressionist actively trying to get Trump elected under a thin veneer of guilt and shame. He’s appealing to people that haven’t been paying attention and think the Israeli mistreatment of Palestinians started right after October 7th, rather than in 1948. By doing this tries to claim that American support of genocide is brand new thereby absolving himself and others of the guilt associated with it, unless of course they also support The Genocide™ by voting for Joe Biden.

      More importantly he can claim that Joe Biden is the only presidential candidate that supports The Genocide™, so vote for someone else and you won’t be supporter of The Genocide™. The quiet part is that Trump never supported The Genocide™ because it never happened until Biden was president.

      • juicy@lemmy.today
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        23 days ago

        Don’t pretend nothing changed after October 7 or that there aren’t candidates like Jill Stein and Cornell West who oppose the genocide.

        • bobburger@fedia.io
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          23 days ago

          Lol okay.

          Every time people bring up Jill Stein and Cornell west as serious candidates it makes me ask how they expect either to get 270 electoral college votes. So I’ll ask you, the serious progressive advocating for Jill Stein and Cornell West, how does either one of them get 270 electoral college votes? Hopefully you can do better than the last guy who’s response was “just tell people their ideas and then get votes”.

          I also think its telling you couldn’t even pick one candidate. You’re convinced 3rd party candidates are our saviors but instead of picking ONE candidate to support, you take the shotgun approach and throw out a bunch of names and hope one of them sticks. There isn’t even a single 3rd party candidate you support, but you’re desperately telling me to pick one, any one, as long as it isn’t Genociden Biden, because they oppose The Genocide™. Vote for anyone else and I’ll be showing I don’t support The Gencoide™ either.

          Even if I were convinced that either of them could get elected, I am not convinced that either have the political capital to govern in an effective manner, much less change the course of America’s support for Israel. So what you’re really advocating for is for me to help Donald Trump get elected on the infinitesimal chance that a miracle candidate could get elected and then have no practical impact on Israels actions.

          All that aside, little has changed since October 7th other than Putin’s boy Benjamin Netanyahu seizing the opportunity to start a war that will keep him in power as long as it’s going on.

          What’s even more important to Palestinians than the 40,000 or so dead Gazans is the day after the war. Will it result in full occupation and control of Palestinian territory by Isreal, which would be the final stages of the slow burn genocide. A plan which Trump endorses.

          Or will it be a general withdrawal and return of Gaza to Palestinian control, which has the possibility of a two state solution. A plan that Biden says he supports.

          Either way, Israel is a sovereign country with it’s own hopes and ambitions. Any American president has only limited ability to impact their decisions. This election is a choice between using our little influence to push towards a two state solution or push towards full Israeli control of Palestinian territory.

          • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            23 days ago

            lol okay. every time people say they don’t know how someone gets 270 electoral college votes, it makes me ask if they know how electoral college votes are allocated. so i’ll ask you: how do candidates earn electoral college votes?

            i also think it’s telling that you are condescending and dismissive toward your interlocutors, dredging out red herrings and smoke screens instead of dealing with what they actually said, and relying heavily on appeals to ridicule.

            even if i were convinced you were engaging in good faith, i’m not convinced you could see past the bad faith propaganda you’re regurgitating.

            all that aside, no party owns the votes of any voter. it is the responsibility of the candidates to earn votes. voters are making it clear that they want the genocide to be stopped, and some candidates are making it clear they aren’t going to do that, while others are making it a centerpiece of their campaigns.

    • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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      23 days ago

      Yup. These people honestly think… or, “honestly” think- that not voting is going to actually do something.

      Now we have two scenarios to address here:

      One:

      They actually think in good-faith, that they are going to make a change. To emphasize- they actually think that doing nothing will cause something to happen. Which means… they are entirely unaware that someone will be elected with or without their help.

      And-

      Two:

      They know damn well that a non-vote will help Trump and that is why they are here. There is clearly more evidence to support this being the case as you’ll never see them on any post critical of Trump, suggesting that people not vote for him. Nor do you see them arguing that Trump wouldn’t be a worse choice. Nope. They’re dead silent on the issue.

      They don’t need to actively support Trump, or suggest people vote for him here as they know there are very few supporters of his on lemmy.

      However, they DO know that conservatives show up to the booths to vote. In DROVES. All they need is to convince a small amount of people to stay home, and their boy wins the White House.

      One of these two are correct. The problem is that everyone loses either way- and they don’t care.

      • Dasus@lemmy.world
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        23 days ago

        “Churchill is a war criminal and a drunk, we’re better off appeasing Hitler!” - you as a Brit in the 30’s

          • Dasus@lemmy.world
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            23 days ago

            You’re really bad at this, you know?

            You’re literally helping elect a fascist leader. And you don’t have a defense, because you’re doing it on purpose, which is also why can’t even mention it.

    • archomrade [he/him]OP
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      24 days ago

      Voting for Biden without trying to tell him he needs to stop supporting genocide will likely still result in him losing.

          • Dasus@lemmy.world
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            24 days ago

            Yeah, sure. That’s the reason.

            It’s just completely out of the realm of possibility to prove that you’re not a Russian troll. /megasarcasm

            Where’d you live?

            • archomrade [he/him]OP
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              23 days ago

              Does it concern you a little bit, though, that I’m really American and there might be a lot more who think like me?

              Fine, assume I’m a Russian troll if you want, but it’d be smart to at least pretend that there’s a small possibility of there being a low turn out, and you should have a plan on how to address that.

            • juicy@lemmy.today
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              23 days ago

              The idea of actually caring that 2.3 million people are on the brink of starvation is so foreign to you that you have to conjure fantasies of Russian troll farms targeting Lemmy to explain away complaints.

        • archomrade [he/him]OP
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          24 days ago

          What do you mean that doesn’t make sense?

          Biden’s approval is trash no matter what i’m doing here. There are voters that are already going to sit this out that need convincing; either you need to convince them to show up anyway (hold their nose to genocide to prevent more genocide), or you need to convince Biden that his position on genocide is a losing one (it looks like it already is)

          In 2016 Hilary lost because voters didn’t think the establishment gave a shit about their concerns, if you don’t think that’s a risk again all hope is lost.

            • archomrade [he/him]OP
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              23 days ago

              Why is it that when I point to the reality of the situation, suddenly I’m a troll?

              Bidens approval is at 38% right now, how many votes do you think that equates to?

              I don’t know what kind of campaign could make up that kind of deficit without a total about face.

      • HopeOfTheGunblade@kbin.social
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        23 days ago

        I did that. I’m also going to vote against more genocide, done not just abroad but at home.

        In the voting booth, there is no “no genocide” button. Your choices come down to “more genocide” and “less genocide”, and you get to push towards one outcome or the other.

        Personally, I’m going to take a brave stance against “more genocide”, but if your principles keep you from engaging with the real options, well.

        I’m sure the people who die who wouldn’t have otherwise will forgive you.

    • slurpyslop@kbin.social
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      24 days ago

      if you vote for biden, you are voting for genocide

      that seems kind of objectively true to me

      you don’t pick and choose which policies your candidate’s vote goes towards it counts for all of them

        • archomrade [he/him]OP
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          23 days ago

          Lmao yes that is how I’d describe him obstructing the ICCs prosecution of it

          • stanleytweedle@lemmy.world
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            23 days ago

            I could obstruct the ICC with a wet paper bag ;)

            But that’s business as usual- he’s still the only thing limiting Israel’s genocidal warfare, not that you really care about Palestinian lives or anything.

            • archomrade [he/him]OP
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              23 days ago

              Why does anyone believe he’s doing anything to limit jack shit? Every time someone so much as bats an eye at Israel he puts out a statement condemning antisemitism

      • bobburger@fedia.io
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        24 days ago

        Unfortunately for you Israel has been committing genocide against the Palestinians since the 1948 Israeli/Arab war, and the United states has supported them since then. I guess if you want to pretend this is something new and Biden is the cause of The Genocide™ so you can feel better about yourself without actually making a difference then good for you. I applaud your mental gymnastics.

        • slurpyslop@kbin.social
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          24 days ago

          me:

          voting for a party enabling genocide is voting in support of genocide

          you:

          Unfortunately for you Israel has been committing genocide against the Palestinians since the 1948 Israeli/Arab war, and the United states has supported them since then. I guess if you want to pretend this is something new and Biden is the cause of The Genocide™ so you can feel better about yourself without actually making a difference then good for you.

          also you:

          I applaud your mental gymnastics.

          • bobburger@fedia.io
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            23 days ago

            You:

            if you vote for biden, you are voting for genocide

            Me:

            If you’re a human being that exists in America you have supported genocide in some capacity, and voting for Biden doesn’t mean you support it anymore than if you do not vote, voting 3rd party, or voting for Trump. America needs to fix its relationship with Israel and Palestine, but Joe Biden is no more culpable for what’s happening in Gaza than any president before him, and he’s light years ahead of the other main party candidate in his support for Palestinians. Your ability to place that blame solely on Joe Biden and people who support him involves an impressive level of mental gymnastics.

            Hope that clears it up for you. If you mean something else I’d love to hear it.

            • archomrade [he/him]OP
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              23 days ago

              If you’re a human being that exists in America you have supported genocide in some capacity

              America was founded on the genocide of native Americans, this is objectively true

              Of course acknowledging that has always been a problem for Americans, but who knew stopping themselves from doing it again would be such a hard sell

            • slurpyslop@kbin.social
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              22 days ago

              voting for Biden doesn’t mean you support it anymore than if you do not vote

              cool, but that’s not what i said

              i said voting for biden is voting in support of genocide

              you might hate genocide, but objectively, voting for a candidate aggressively enabling genocide is voting in support of that genocide

              the rest of your comment is just filler

                • slurpyslop@kbin.social
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                  22 days ago

                  i’d say trying to start a sanction-bloc on the icc for attempting to stop said genocide is being pretty aggressive about it, as is continuing to block any un-led action, as is continuing to send arms

                  which do you disagree with?

                  • biden is supporting genocide
                  • voting for a hypothetical candidate supporting genocide is voting in support of genocide

                  The rest of your comment is inane prattle.

                  i know you wanted to do the ol’ switcheroo but it doesn’t really work when you responded to everything in my comment

          • Dasus@lemmy.world
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            23 days ago

            You:

            refraining from using my vote, so that Trump will win is the moral and reasonable course of action to help Palestinians, despite Trump being an insane fascist who’s also Putin’s little bitch

            • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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              23 days ago

              This person is completely fine to punish America if they don’t get their way. They are aware of the damage Trump will do to the LGBTQ+, to women’s rights, to education, to PALESTINE…. but they clearly don’t care.

              If they can’t get their single issue addressed- they are willing to ruin an entire country so that they can stand in the wreckage and say

              “I told you this would happen if you didn’t listen to me.”

            • archomrade [he/him]OP
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              23 days ago

              Refraining from using your voice to say ‘I don’t want to vote for genocide, actually’

      • Dasus@lemmy.world
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        24 days ago

        Do you know who the candidates are? Who the other guy is?

        The person whos promised to remove all climate actions and regulations on day one. A guy who is taking dick from Putin every night while screaming “harder daddy”. A drooling megalomaniacal diaper wearing fascist, who supports Putin and Netanyahu.

        You’re not voting for genocide. You’re not even voting for Biden. You’re voting against Trump.

        If you’re an American with the right to vote and you don’t vote Biden, you are directly supporting Trump, Putin, Netanyahu and other far-right leaders.

        Have you ever heard of the trolley problem? You’re online, so you should have. Do you know what’s never the answer to those problems? “I walk away but also take no responsibility for allowing more people to die.” Sorry, not an option. The lesson is that inaction is a choice with consequences.

  • I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world
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    24 days ago

    No one is arguing a little genocide is good. They’re arguing that a lot of genocide is clearly worse. This seems obvious, but I’m constantly surprised how fucking stupid people are.

    • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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      24 days ago

      They are not stupid; they are deliberately misunderstanding.

      I feel a little bit silly even trying to “explain” this like there will be anyone who’s informed by it, but no one here is pro genocide. I would be surprised if you could find 5 people on Lemmy ever who said that genocide is good if done by Democrats, or at any other time.

      Here is where to find a protest; go there and meet some new friends, do what you can to stop the genocide. How to do it, I don’t really know, but posting on Lemmy about not voting for Biden will not accomplish it for a couple of different reasons.

      • stanleytweedle@lemmy.world
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        24 days ago

        They are not stupid; they are deliberately misunderstanding.

        Lot of column A, little of column B.

      • archomrade [he/him]OP
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        24 days ago

        “Go to this place and keep your protest away from my peaceful politics-free community.”

        It is certainly not the case that people here need any encouragement to be louder about not wanting their candidate supporting genocide.

        I edited it for the both of you to make if more fair, hopefully you don’t still take issue with the framing

        • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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          24 days ago

          You claim that I think genocide is fine, and then hope I don’t take issue with the framing?

          This is a very bizarre conversation

          • archomrade [he/him]OP
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            24 days ago

            I’m not saying you think it’s fine, i’m saying you need to convince no-genocide voters that it’s at least acceptable.

            • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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              24 days ago

              It’s not acceptable. There are a lot of people arguing that it is not genocide, but there are zero people arguing that any genocide is acceptable.

              • archomrade [he/him]OP
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                24 days ago

                Acceptable in exchange for less of it?

                I’m really trying to work with you here. You are all here spending time on communicating something, what is it you’re trying to do by it?

                If it isn’t to convince people on the fence about Biden because of his support of Israel, what is it exactly?

    • archomrade [he/him]OP
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      24 days ago

      Does that really change which button you would press here? I’m a little worried

      • stanleytweedle@lemmy.world
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        24 days ago

        What if the buttons were (and kinda are) “Palestinian genocide with survivors” or “Palestinian and Ukrainian genocide with no survivors”?

        • archomrade [he/him]OP
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          24 days ago

          If your willing to accept a little genocide in exchange for not having to convince anyone of anything, sure

          Wait actually is this you convincing no-genocide voters that a little genocide is fine? Woa that was slick!

          • OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works
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            24 days ago

            Oh yeah *just *convince the Democrats. Sure thing, I’ll have it done by Tuesday. Honestly I feel stupid for not thinking of just convincing them. Why has no one tried this before? /S

            • archomrade [he/him]OP
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              24 days ago

              Good luck convincing enough people that a little genocide is fine to win against trump.

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                  24 days ago

                  Believe me, I’m not rooting for it (or don’t, Idgaf).

                  Democrats are more principled than Trump voters though, if one party can survive running on it it’s not the democrats.

          • stanleytweedle@lemmy.world
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            24 days ago

            What is a ‘little genocide’? I thought your whole shtick was that genocide was genocide and ‘less’ is still genocide.

            Are you conceding that there are degrees and less is better than more?

            • archomrade [he/him]OP
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              24 days ago

              Are you conceding that there’s a choice between convincing people genocide is ok vs convincing democrats it’s not, and you’d prefer the former?

              • stanleytweedle@lemmy.world
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                24 days ago

                Voting is the only binary choice. You can do whatever other ‘choices’ you’re babbling about at the same time if you want.

                • archomrade [he/him]OP
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                  24 days ago

                  That’s not a terrible idea actually, work it from both ends.

                  Unless you care about the substance of the issue, but if not then go nuts.

    • archomrade [he/him]OP
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      24 days ago

      weird how that’s not a button already, did you want me to add to for you? I didn’t think it would be one you needed.

      • stanleytweedle@lemmy.world
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        24 days ago

        Yeah go ahead and add a third button labeled “Double Genocide with Trump” to the meme- that would actually make it pretty funny.

        • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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          24 days ago

          And then a guy who’s banging it over and over again while saying “I will NEVER support a genocide”

          (It is way more than double btw. Not that numbers are the point, but way more than 70,000 people died who didn’t need to just from Trump fucking up the Covid response, and you can add in Kurds or Ukrainians if you need it to tick the Genocide Region of France box, and that was before co-opting the military and preventing it from giving the strong push back they did the last time around)

          • archomrade [he/him]OP
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            24 days ago

            If you think this meme is saying “genocide is fine, actually” I have no idea what to tell you.

            • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
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              24 days ago

              It’s been a while since I’ve seen the Chewbacca Defense bad-faith arguing technique: Say something so nonsensical that it’s difficult to even arrive at a response without being tainted yourself by the incoherence.

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                24 days ago

                I’m not sure what is incoherent about campaigning for a position.

        • archomrade [he/him]OP
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          24 days ago

          It would certainly be easier than trying to convince anyone of anything, if that’s your preference

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    23 days ago

    Dude! Nice man you built there. Really slick. What’s it made of? Oh? Straw?

    Cool cool. Lightweight. Organic. Biodegradable! No downsides to that I’m su—

    HOLY SHIT

    Holy shit holy shit it’s on fire. The straw man! It’s burning! Your poor man of straw! It couldn’t stand up to the heat of even a little interrogation!!

    Ugh. I’m shocked about this! Apalled. No one could have predicted this, no one.

    I am so sorry for your loss. It must be truly a blow. Well, take care now. I usually block accounts like these. :)

    • joenforcer
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      23 days ago

      Never been more thankful for a block function. This clown is bad for all of us.

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        24 days ago

        How apropos that you would choose a picture of a character who is insane and wants to murder people to respresent yourself.

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          23 days ago

          Insanity is banking on voters turning out for the least popular incumbent in living memory just because the other one is worse

          Tell me you’ve never met an American without telling me you’ve never met an American

  • Spazz@lemmynsfw.com
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    24 days ago

    JFC, no Democrat is supporting genocide, they’re just not willing to pay the price to stand up to the people committing it.

    Besides, all you accomplish by beating up the Democrats over this is ensuring the people who are literally pro genocide will be in power next year

    • archomrade [he/him]OP
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      23 days ago

      My only goal is to convince the spineless liberals that they can’t just count on people holding their nose this election. “The other option is worse” doesn’t even begin to convince the voters they need to win this election

      Quick reminder that was Clinton’s strategy. Ask everyone here if you’re not familiar how that turned out

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      23 days ago

      Yeah! Maybe if if they add the votes on this post to the election results, Biden won’t even NEED to win Pennsylvania, Wisconsin OR Michigan! Could you imagine??

      • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
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        23 days ago

        Oh look! It’s a .ml’er come to spread their…. “wisdom?” I’m surprised there’s no memes and emojis though.

        Your sarcasm doesn’t change what I said being true. It just makes you look bitter.

  • CrazyEddie041@kbin.social
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    23 days ago

    For what it’s worth, I totally agree. We’ve "lesser evil"ed our way into voting for genocide, the greatest evil. Sorry that things are going to get worse under Trump, but there is a 0% chance that I vote for either of the genocide candidates, even if one is worse than the other. Democrats will have to lose elections until they field an anti-genocide candidate for the presidency (I can’t believe that’s a qualification now).

    • archomrade [he/him]OP
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      23 days ago

      Democrats will have to lose elections until they field an anti-genocide candidate for the presidency (I can’t believe that’s a qualification now)

      Everyone here feigning outrage are pretending as if the democrats don’t have a huge turnout problem this year, and I’m worried they have no interest in advocating to fix that problem except rhetorically dancing around their candidate’s hugely unpopular policies

  • juicy@lemmy.today
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    24 days ago

    The button on the right must be hidden under a panel or something. I don’t think they know it exists.

    • archomrade [he/him]OP
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      24 days ago

      Not shown: a little treat dispenser that rewards them if they choose the left button