- cross-posted to:
- paradoxgames@lemmy.world
- gaming@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- paradoxgames@lemmy.world
- gaming@lemmy.zip
Very surprising. The game looked like it had a lot of potential and could’ve been the most popular sims alternative, but it’s suddenly been cancelled.
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I guess no game is better than a shitty one, but can someone please make a modern sims game that’s not EA and their endless DLC crap.
Without endless dlc? Who do you think Paradox is???
They’d charge you for your sims’ water bill if they could
Paradox DLC tends to have quite a bit of content in it though. Certainly more than EA tends to give you.
Paradox’s current DLC model is pretty nice, tbh.
I mean, you say that, but a new player looking to get into Stellaris or CKII is looking at a $300 bill if they want all the content. In fact that’s what prevented me from getting into Stellaris, I own the base game, but when I discovered I’d need to shell out an additional several hundred dollars, even during a sale, for not only new species but just for base game mechanics, I stopped in my tracks.
Compare with Civilization, I own Civ V and Civ VI and all the released content for each, pretty sure I bought each of those for less than $20.
I did see an announcement earlier this year that they were folding some DLC into the base game for either CK3 or HoI4 because it was difficult to balance the game with all of the different DLC permutations possible. I think it would be smart of them to do this in general, maybe after a DLC is past a certain age, pull it into the base game.
Just buy Paradox games on sale too if you’re comparing it to sale price of other games.
That WAS the sale price. It’s $200 something dollars for the complete set of Stellaris normally, on 50% sale that’s still $100+ for everything. Pretty sure CKII was worse.
CK2 is trash.
That’s not remotely the point here.
I would have agreed some time ago, but they’ve shot the prices through the roof lately.
Endless DLC is literally the paradox business model. I happen to find it an acceptable compromise for continuous development of the games I like, at least the way paradox does it, but lets not pretend like this was going to be different from a business model perspective.
My problem with endless DLC isn’t the cost, but the fragmented result of each ‘feature’ needing to stand separately and not interact with any other DLC feature. You end up with some really janky gameplay where nothing works intuitively and the stuff you can implement is all hurt by those limitations.
Not to mention the sheer code hell that all this results in with an exponential increase in possible install states to account for. Which the devs just give up on and the game becomes a little buggier with every new expansion.
Honestly think they should move to a sort of MMO model. Charge for the most recent expansions and older DLC eventually gets merged into the base game. Cuts down on complexity and most of your sales will happen in the first year anyway.
While PDX-published games may suffer from the decouplement of features between DLCs, at the very least PDS-developed games have a built-up expertise when it comes to managing this.
As for MMO model, it’s a hard sell because purchased things get made “free” for new comers. It’s one of the crux that EU4 faced when they rolled many DLC features into the base game.
Nobody seems to care that WoW expansions get rolled into the base install later on.
The trick is to have the merge happen a lot later. Like 1+ years, not a few months. That’s long enough that anyone who’s a decent fan and actively playing is going to typically shell out the money. It also makes it easy for new and returning fans to jump in. I’m absolutely certain that there are lots of potential Sims 4 players that see the $500+ worth of DLC and just… never start playing because it’s completely overwhelming. Especially when you see the titles and realize stuff that seems basic isn’t included in the base game: seasons, pets, etc
Different model, unless you’re advocating for a monthly subscription model for these games. That’s the only reason that “roll up” happens, to try and get people to subscribe. Much harder to subscribe if I need to buy 10 DLCs + base game first.
Make the purchase an early access for a couple weeks or month.
While true, I think Paradox does it better than Maxis. First, you almost always get some stuff for free. Second, it’s usually more substantial (or it’s art packs or whatever, which you don’t need but are fairly cheap). Would this game do it well? Who knows. Just having them competition would force them and Maxis to do better though.
All this said, I pirate most of the DLCs for Paradox games. I’ll buy the first few near release, but when I want to revisit a game after a few years, likely just for one playthrough or less, I don’t feel like spending $100+ to catch up, and I’d like to see where the new content went. I’ve given them plenty of money where I feel no moral issue with doing so.
I feel like the amount stuff paradox are putting behind dlc is better than what it was before either games like ck2, however, the quality of the stuff in the dlc has gotten a lot worse
CK2 dlc was mid as fuck. Every single one adds a few features at most that don’t meaningfully change anything, just enhance things slightly. Some changes are borderline QOL but all of them leaving you with fomo when you watch streamers. It’s always been bullshit and predatory.
I never played ck2 but I know that eu4 with and without dlc are like different games
For $500 I would bloody well hope so.
I still have hope for Paralives
I’m keeping an eye on this but I really hate the anime blush on every character
Lol, I’m not sure I’d describe it as anime, but I understand what you mean. Personally I quite like the aesthetic of it. It makes them feel just the right amount of fake to me that I won’t feel bad deleting the pool ladder. I can totally see how it would bug you though. Hopefully it’ll be easy to mod out, or at least turn down.
If that game freezes is in paralyzed?
A 64 bit version of Sims3 would fix a lot of the constraints of that game, but it’ll never happen.
I don’t even care about the DLC, I just want slightly less insane DRM. I can’t play the sims 4 right now because of a server outage despite the game already being on my computer. Why do they even need DRM for a free game?
It’s a shame. But based on what I saw about it, it looked like maybe they had some delusions about using LLMs for character dialogue, which seems like an insanely complex feature to build into an already complex game.
Why? It can’t be much more than using one of those chatbot girlfriends. I know there could be delays as it takes time to generate but it could have a local version that just is a stripped down version that just processes dialogue. Probably requires a beefy GPU though.
You’d need the conversations to be highly constrained in order to not break the game. Currently there are too many ways of “jailbreaking” LLMs. It was too much of a scope creep for a game which was already biting off a lot more than most studios could chew.
constrained in order to not break the game.
While that’s true, I suspect that whoever gets there first will get a free pass in the court of public opinion, so long as it’s a single player game.
“Look how awful my Sims are” is already a recurring gag hobby, anyway.
I wouldn’t give it a free pass if it ruined the gameplay and would have been easier for them not to implement.
There already are a small number of games utilizing LLMs. Yes it‘s immersion breaking from time to time but the worst part is the credit system many of them use to pay for the API. If you go past your conversation limit, you‘ve got to pay extra.
That sounds awful
Oof. Wasn’t this the one that was going to have in-depth object customization? I was looking forward to it from a dollhouse-building perspective. Even if it wasn’t great, having some competition might convince EA to allocate more dev resources to the Sims, which has ruthlessly embraced the “minimum viable product” philosophy for a long time.
i dont know if its MVP or if they are just taking as low a risk as possible on their investments. they have no financial incentive to try anything new
Well HECK! I have been advertising this game to every gamer I know, finally a Sims game that’s not EA… :( I was very hopeful when they delayed without a new date, just take your time and get it right. Dang, I was really looking forward to this
Paradox is just as bad as EA with DLC. Look at Stellaris, or Victoria, or cities skylines, or surviving mars
They sell you a product at a fair price without putting it behind a loot box, unless I missed something. I don’t think that makes Paradox “just as bad” because they make a lot of DLC that you could choose to not purchase.
Realistically, at least for Stellaris, Paradox updates the game for free for everyone that breaks everyone’s in-progress games and breaks key features of the game by fundamentally changing how the mechanics work. Then they sell the DLC that is absolutely necessary to fix whatever they broke for people who don’t own the DLC.
Paradox creates the problem and then sells the solution.
I haven’t played that one, so that’s news to me, as I didn’t experience that in Cities: Skylines or Surviving Mars.
Ck3 with the plague mechanics does this. The base game has some default settings that absolutely wrecks everything once plagues get going and only having the DLC can change those settings.
I only played Stellaris off and on, but I went years without buying an expansion and always thought the new systems were complete and better than what they replaced when I returned. Breaking current saves is frustrating, so I guess you would need to delay an update if you had one you planned on returning to.
If you didn’t know, you can roll back to older versions of steam games with some work. A few games have a built-in system, but most of the tile you have to manually replace files after redownloading the old versions.
They sell you 15 minor features for $10 each and then every tutorial/gameplay video you watch has 5-10 features you’ve never seen before. It fills you with fomo and when you do cave you end up spending $80 to make a $40 game slightly more interesting. It’s predatory as fuck, paradox can go fuck themselves.
Sorry, I really hate paradox.
What am I fearing that I’m missing out on when there are 62 DLCs for Cities: Skylines but I only wanted 3 of them? I wanted Green Cities, After Dark, and Mass Transit, but I really couldn’t care less about Airports. Why does this FOMO apply only to DLC and not the entire library of video games out there that you can opt to buy or not? I really don’t understand it. If you buy one Paradox game, do you have to buy every Paradox game or else miss out on having the entire library? I hope that this doesn’t come off as me being hostile. I just genuinely don’t understand it. Latching on to gambling addiction in EA’s Ultimate Team DLC is a concept that I can easily understand how it’s predatory. Making a bunch of other products that you may not want to buy does not strike me as predatory but as casting a wide net to make the right content for the right customer.
Just because you’re able to spend $60 on 3 DLCs instead of whatever the 62 DLCs cost, doesn’t mean those DLC are worth what you’re spending. I can buy a single banana instead of the full bunch if I want but if they cost $10 each I’m not getting a good deal.
The fomo is because I’ve already invested in the base game. I can ignore content about games I haven’t bought yet but if I want to watch tutorial videos that have every DLC I have to filter out all the content I haven’t paid for. I can’t engage with the community on equal footing unless I spent 4-5x the price of the base game on overpriced content. That is not an enjoyable experience and has left me with a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to Paradox games. I don’t want to navigate the cesspool that is their monetization strategy so I simply don’t buy their games (I pirate them :^) ).
Well, first I’d say that those three DLCs cost a maximum of $45 and not $60, if they were MSRP, with current MSRP being a little less than that, but I don’t know if they ever got a price cut. Second, Steam sales happen like clockwork, for DLC as well, and there’s no way I spent $45. Third, the right feature to the right person might be worth that price, and that’s the benefit of their model. Over the course of so many years, they can keep working on the game and add niche features, some of which might be up your alley, rather than putting out a base game that lacks features important to you and never expanding the game.
I’m not sure why the tutorials for features you don’t have are a problem, because then you wouldn’t be doing the things they’re doing anyway, but I’m sorry that ruined the experience for you. It’s really hard for me to call that a cesspool though. They just put out a lot of product where you can decide what’s important to you, and I’d say that’s exactly what it ought to be.
$60 CAD and sales do not justify the base price. Nothing you’ve said has remotely convinced me any of their DLC is worth what they’re charging.
You’re not going to convince me this shit isn’t predatory and vice versa. Later.
They added an option to subscribe instead. Pay a monthly fee, get access to any and all dlc.
I dont love their monetization model either but I understand the need for financial return on the investment of continued development.
Plenty of developers continue to develop content for years after release without selling overpriced DLC. Y’all are coping.
TBF, when it comes to The Sims specifically, that’s the same as EA’s model: a bunch of DLC/expansions you don’t have to buy.
Until the next one is an always online live service that means it has an expiration date built into it by design, and that’s not even conjecture; we already know this.
Cities Skylines 2 launch is worse than any EA launch I can remember. Even that sense of accomplishment horseshite. They released a paid DLC 5 months after launch while not dealing with core functionality bugs.
I’m going to rate “exploits addiction to make billions off of legalized gambling for children” as worse than putting out a sub par, broken sequel with DLC 5 months after release.
Using the floor as a bar.
In a hilariously circular way, EA has this beat still.
The Simcity 2013 launch was so terrible it killed Simcity and the studio Maxis, basically paving the way for City Skylines to take over the genre 2 years later.
It was online only, to the point where if you disconnected from the Internet you were booted out of the game. It also did most game rendering server side to force multiplayer/anti piracy/EA Origin store, and they only had enough infastructure for 1/10th of their player base on launch. That 10% isn’t exaggeration, either. They underestimated server load by 90%.
It was also a severely buggy, local resource hog somehow, even with being mostly remotely rendered. Since only a tiny fraction of the servers needed for the game were online, the game just chocked itself to death.
It took months to get it to a “working” state, at which point people had discovered all the insane and dumb behavior by ingame actors like citizens just picking a random house to go to end of day/etc. The tiny city limit size caused by being always online was also a very sore point for players, as you could barely build anything in a city building game. You could finish buillding your “city” in just a few hours, at which point you had to buy another “zone” that was separate from your current one. They didmt seamlessly connect like old SimCity or city skylines, you actually entered another tiny city slice to build on. It was terrible, and the size limit was clearly one of the measures to reduce server costs, as each zone looked like it was a new small server instance.
By the time they actually resolved the server issues, the game was dead, ending a 20+ year legacy in gaming for the brand and the studio. EA hasent made a simcity game in 11 years because of its failure. It was a shitshow and a half.
Yeah, but having the games in competition would force then to try to win players to their side over the alternative, for both of the games. It would have been nice to have an option when playing this genre.
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All my homies hate paradox.
Have a look at Paralives
Thanks a lot for sharing, i’ve wishlisted that!
I’m not really that upset considering it was going to end up the same as The Sims (with its content in DLC piecemeal) anyway, coming from Paradox.
It visually looked like an asset flip simulation shovelware game you can find all over Steam by searching for the shit with the worst reviews, too.
Should be noted that paradox was just publishing it, not developing
So… Paradox tectonic is not related to paradox…? Are you sure?
It was being done by a Paradox-owned studio out of California, over whom Paradox likely had little day-to-day operational influence.
Then Paradox was developing it. They own the studio. Who else is going to build the game? An executive?
I am sure that everyone would agree that Paradox owns/developed/published Europa Universalis 4… But that was made by “Paradox Tinto” or Stellaris was “Paradox Development Studio”… The publishing wing of Paradox doesn’t develop games. Obviously. But I don’t understand why thats in any way relevant to the discussion. Paradox (the company, not specifically the publishing wing) was 100% responsible for the development, the testing, and the publishing of Life by You. They built it, they took it down.
Sad. In a way, it is amazing that The Sims 3 is 15 years old now and still, no game is able to match it.
There’s some ageless classics. HoMM3 came out 25 years ago and is still pretty much the top of its genre. Freespace2 more or less shut down the spacesim genre 25 years ago, as well…
boo. Oh well, at least there’s that other sims-like in development i’m blanking on the name of.
Paralives?
Yeah, that’s the one!
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I wonder how that’s going. When the devs started they were clearly overpromising things that they thought would be cool to have without any idea of how long it would take to implement them. I always suspected it would remain in development for many many years, but apparently it’ll be playable next year.
There’s also AlterLife.
My biggest complaint about Sims-likes is that the visual style always looks too serious. It gives me the feeling that whatever I’m going to do with my not-Sims, it’s gonna be something that makes me regret my real life.
You wanna know what I did the last time I played the Sims 2 though? I repeatedly held parties at my Sim’s house and then lured the guests into a room they couldn’t get out of. I also used the moveobjects cheat to collect police cars whenever a cop showed up to shut the party down. By the time I was done I had amassed around 70 urns, many hysterical immortal Sims (Sims with households can’t die while visiting someone’s house in the Sims 2), 4 Police cars and a fire truck.
The Sims has a mischievous air to it that tickles the devil on your shoulder and begs you to listen to them. None of the Sims-likes I’m aware of seem to have the same air.
Edit: now I want to play the Sims again.
This ain’t right
My Sim grew weed and played PC games
Kerbal Space Program has a similar vibe, and other space sims take themselves way too seriously to be fun.
RIP KSP2
Well, this is fucking depressing…
well we still have paralives right as an upcoming"sims killer"?
im interested in it but i don’t know if it will kill the sims
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Yup… It looked like a really bad attempt at photo realism in 2024. At this point you either need to use cartoon-like graphics or some sort or actually pull off the photo realism.
It was pretty obvious that game was never going to reach either of those marks.
I was definitely excited for the prospect of a Sim’s competitor, but this wasn’t going to be it… I think they did the right thing pulling the plug.
I love ACNH’s style where people are cartoony, but furniture is more detailed.
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Honestly that’s for the best, the game looked awful all around.
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Do by chance mean Stardock not Paradox? I was unable to google anything about Paradox and the Star Control IP but lots about Stardock came up. But if it was them could you pass me some links I was unable to find anything.
Do you mean Stardock?
Whoops you’re right!
Haha no worries. Did you see the Kickstarter for the sequel to Star Control 2?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pistolshrimp/free-stars-children-of-infinity
Hell to the yeah! Put in my pledge and tried to spread the word as far as I could too.
((Happy Camper))
I get those two confused all the time too
Before you go spouting off the mountaintop, might want to make sure you know what you’re talking about. It’s clear that you have no clue.
Probably because it would be the death of Sims is why it was canceled this way.
What in the actual fuck are you on about?
Wow people here don’t comprehend the third order calculation
Ea regularly buys out or pays off anyone who makes sim competitors.
Look it up.
In order to buy out Paradox, EA would have to make an offer for their entire existing share float, which would then have to be accepted by the shareholders. This means that they would almost certainly sell their stock at over market value (because why would they accept less?).
From their point of view, this would be a good thing. So why then would the shareholders allow this project to be cancelled if it was about to net them a huge payout, according to your theory?
Holy fuck I think the bots here cant fuckin read
