- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.de
- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.de
The prehistoric megalithic structure in England has been targeted by activists spraying orange powder paint, social media footage showed.
Environmental protesters sprayed paint on Stonehenge on Wednesday, with footage showing an orange powder covering some of the stones.
Two protesters dressed in white were seen running towards two of the megaliths, spraying paint, as another person attempted to stop them, in footage released by Just Stop Oil, an environmental activist group focused on the issue of human-caused climate change.
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yknow what fuck it, i support this. i was a little on the reactionary side back when they were throwing soup,
but after seeing hundreds of comments saying “just do <insert violent felony> if you want something done” and then seeing those same people turn around and say “but safely blocking streets in protest is an affront to my rights, stop being annoying”
…i get it now. it’s cornstarch and will wash off. calling for “optics” is just concern trolling. people are hearing about it. that’s the point. fuck oil. keep up the messaging. people are going to starve and drown and bleed from war caused by climate change. we are gonna survive a few people yeeting nonpermanent shit at public art.
Even if they did damage anything their message is that anyone getting mad about damaging works of art or heritage sites through direct action should be just as mad about people destroying the actual entire planet indirectly and calling for their immediate imprisonment too.
As annoying as I find them and as much as I want to preserve these things, they’re exactly right that paintings and rocks mean fuckall if we ruin our only home.
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True, but also there’s the more general point about “I support the cause but not the method” naysayers being absolutely counterproductive. Climate protesters are finding themselves cut off from every method of protest, violent or not. Because lots of people want to continue business as usual in peace without those pesky tree huggers complaining about, y’know, the fact we’re already well past the Paris 1.5 °C target with no end in sight
You would have to be the laziest dumbest motherfucker who has ever lived to not be able to get a job in recycling or renewable energy sector right now if you want one.
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Removed, civility.
If it’s your personal choice, don’t fuck up MY planet then
.
“Carbon footprint” was invented by BP as a marketing ploy.
.
On top of that, one of the biggest problems with climate change is that us as individual citizens have absolutely no control over it no matter how many people try and guilt us into taking action.
No amount of individuals recycling, driving less or with a more efficient vehicle or with an electric car, or drinking less water is going to change the fact that container ships, factories, manufacturing facilities, cruise ships, private jets, etc. belch more pollutants into the atmosphere by so many orders of magnitude that anything we can do as individuals is completely and utterly inconsequential in comparison.
Me recycling my plastic doesn’t mean shit and it never will. Same with me driving an electric car vs. a gas powered car, hell even me driving a car with good fuel economy vs one that has bad fuel economy. Cargo shipping is responsible for more than 20% of the greenhouse gas emissions in the world while passenger automobiles are responsible for 5%-7% at most based on recent estimates. If every single person in the world stopped driving fossil-fuel powered cars and moved entirely to renewable fuel sources for their transportation, it would still be a drop in the bucket – and that’s never going to happen.
But the media keeps pointing the shotgun at everyday citizens like it’s our fault that cruise ships belch shit into the atmosphere when we haven’t been on a cruise in 10 years, or it’s our fault that the shipping industry refuses to use more ecological and eco-friendly fuel sources.
Tell me more about how me as a single person recycling is gonna save the world, lol.
Just Stop Oil is specifically pointing to governments to stop new oil projects. They aren’t blaming you, why are you so defensive?
Because most protests are about making the lives of normal people miserable until they’re pissed enough to hold someone to task.
Are the Tories gonna care that Stonehenge was dusted, from in their mansions? Most of them would love to dig up the stones and use them as new countertops, simply as a bragging point at their parties. But normal people that care about landmarks like these will be pissed and, maybe, bitch to the government.
Because most protests are about making the lives of normal people miserable until they’re pissed enough to hold someone to task.
And how is that working for you? How is diet-terrorism panning out?
that container ships, factories, manufacturing facilities, cruise ships, private jets, etc. belch more pollutants into the atmosphere by so many orders of magnitude that anything we can do as individuals is completely and utterly inconsequential in comparison.
In my area they were talking about building a natural gas plant. We have some of the strictest laws on earth about air pollution. People protested against it. The planet got moved to a different state, one with less regulations.
I mentioned this to one of the people organizing the protest. I point out exactly what was going to happen and my prediction was correct. If the decision is already being made to do the wrong thing I want it done by the best person I can find, because they will do it in the least offensive way that they can.
It’s shit like this. It’s not being able to look at the whole picture that is the most devastating.
my quarrel is with people who tell me what my real quarrel is thank you very much. edit: that includes status quo liberals telling activists how to fight for a livable future and you telling me who i am upset at.
i have no opinion on the headline or who believes it. please do not tell me what i believe.
That’s not even half as clever as you think it is.
dude im not trying to be clever i just don’t like people telling me what i believe. do you?
Yeah I’m on board now.
These stunts are a harmless way to keep climate activism in the media. It’s fine.
Sadly, I don’t see human kind changing course and I think it’s inevitable that this kind of activism deteriorates into environmental terrorism.
The people up in arms about the protests have never given a shit about the things the protesters “destroy”. It’s all just an optics game to make any dissenting opinion from the norm look batshit. Fuck the pieces of shit getting up in arms about this without knowing what’s up. Theyre the problem. They make the world worse every day they exist. They stop change. They allow for the atrocities to be committed.
It was coloured corn starch, and the stones have lichen growing on them that has helped them survive this long.
Nobody knows what the colouring agent was.
If it causes lasting damages they will and should be prosecuted for exactly what happens. I’m hoping they did their due diligence but hey, if not that was dumb as hell of them and they should pay for it.
Again though, the sentiment remains that people are going to die. That damage is also irreparable and far less redeemable. I support this kind of action.
Ffs just blow up a pipeline or sabotage parts of their infrastructure or follow the higher ups home and deface their homes.
,they said, sitting at home, doing nothing.
So they did just as much as the protesters in this case.
Nothing is preferred than destroying cultural artifacts.
All this does is drive people away from the cause.
None of the people clutching their pearls about this would have done anything anways.
Spent the whole day doing things about it at my job.
That would be ideal.
And they did, literally destroyed a couple fuel pumps at two gas stations: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/apr/28/just-stop-oil-protesters-sabotage-petrol-pumps-on-m25-motorway
Did you hear about that on the news? Did you see this being posted on Lemmy?
Now you know why they have to do what they do.
All they do is make people not care about their cause.
Sure made me care.
No, those people already dont care. They just need an excuse for their inaction.
Or go sabotage a monument in Saudi-Arabia, they produce more oil than anyone.
Throwing orange corn starch on the Black Stone in Mecca would be amazing press.
They won’t do that. That would involve being killed. There is a reason why Peta throws red paint on old ladies wearing fur and not on biker gangs wearing leather.
The very worst thing the UK government is going to do is throw them in jail for a few months, maybe a small fine.
These are all felonies.
This is the UK. “Felonies” 🙄
But yeah it’s a lot more severe and they’d probably be out of activism forever.
Fucking so sorry my second language isn’t up to par to your standards.
What’s the right term here, “a proper naughty twat?”
That would be “crime”.
A felony is a type of crime which doesn’t exist here.
You can’t just get upset if someone points out you’ve used a word wrong. Words have meanings and while getting it wrong, especially as a second language, isn’t bad, it’s still incorrect and can be confusing (e.g. most people would assume you’re talking about US law when you talk about felonies).
I can get upset when instead of correcting me in the first comment, you mocked me.
Assuming everyone’s aware of the US/UK law and their nomenclature is too much sniffing of your on farts.
Or is it flatulence. Toots?
Oh and lastly, the person I replied to, listed random crimes/felonies, and didn’t specify the country those crimes/felonies should be done.
From context, it’s clear that it’d be UK action, considering JSO is a UK group.
Climate activism isn’t limited to JSO
Spray painting someone’s house is not a felony. Also who cares.
Stalking is.
Who cares? I’m sure the people who trying to protest without becoming felons. What is this take…
Following someone once is not stalking. For stalking there has to be a persistent pattern. Or else women would be able to get stalkers arrested a lot more often instead of being killed by them.
Fucking thank you for the nitpicking. I’m sure you can deduct where people live if you followed them somewhere once.
Christ almighty the thickness.
Encouraging people to do crimes IRL, while posting on the internet anonymously, sitting on your fat ass consuming resources that accelerate climate change.
How do the boots and assholes of the Uber wealthy taste btw? From the way you are munchin down I would guess pretty good but I would like to know your first hand knowledge.
Explain the correlation between you not understanding what a protest is and me supposedly “munching boots”.
Sit the fuck back down, basement-dweller, and enjoy people doing the hard work of resisting the status quo for you.
Property damage over a certain sum is
Yeah those people who built that place definitely screwed up the environment. This will show them. Let’s dig up their graves and piss on them to show the world we mean business.
Or maybe let’s not screw up historical sites and go after big business and the ones actually destroying the environment.
I hate it too. But you’re hearing about it and its here on Lemmy. So its working. Idk if bad rep is what they want. They should be trashing the industry buildings and business headquarters of the most polluting companies. They’re getting arrested anyway and at least then they’d look like Captain Planet.
Is it working though? Does discussion of what absolute dipshits they are further the cause? I bet I’d hear about it if they bombed a refinery, but that takes some pretty serious commitment.
“Man, these people are dipshits”, “climate change is a problem though”
That’s an overall positive discussion that wouldn’t have happened otherwise.
So these people are sacrificing their image for discourse about climate change.
Well you’re missing the other half of the sentence that’s implied…
“These people are dipshits… I don’t want to be associated with them. How the fuck can I help the planet without being associated with these morons.”… It’s actually quite limiting.
There are so many other people preventing climate change that are not trowing stuff at art. You can join them. If a little group of people doing non violent/non destructive behavior is already preventing you from acting to protect our planet. Then you where never interested in protecting it to begin with.
I’d call that a net-positive.
Also, disagree that they’re morons. Their methods are rather clever and well-thought out. Unlike some or the mouth-breathers here.
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Climate-change activism shouldn’t be a thing. Let’s not get comfortable with it existing, otherwise it will become constant background noise.
Climate discussion was everywhere, last week. Every major news outlet and chat forum.
They have spray painted those HQs as well, the news just doesn’t cover it much. So far the only way to raise awerness has been to do stuff like this. Also they intentionally haven’t damaged anything historic so this works with no issue, they know what they are doing.
It’s like that internet law. The quickest way to the correct answer is to confidently assert an incorrect answer. Maybe the quickest way to getting noticed is whatever will entice the masses to “correct” your actions?
wait i love this theory and hate it so much it just might be correct
You should probably specify which Captain Planet.
This is okay with me
I was today years old when I learned there’s a Don Cheadle Captain Planet short movie!?!
Captain Planet Mother Fucker!
“Happy Arbor Day.”
It’s not “working”, people are not going to change their purchasing or lifestyle choices based on this.
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Amazingly missed the point. This is for the deniers and for all the inaction and half-assed attempts at fixing the problem only to bend to corporate interests. This is shows organization in a group and the means to get things done. What do you think the next steps are if these actions dont beget any changes?
.
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The Les Grossman act just made you lose any credibility you might have had. I see people being activists, even if the method is questionable. They are working, as we are all here reading about it. Then you come in with some snide ass comment and vitriol. I see no ignorance on my part. I hope you’re paper does double the work that my toddler is for the climate and wish you best of luck.
This is for the deniers
You made a claim.
Do you really think any deniers are now convinced?
Over a century of data pouring in but this act will be what convinces them?
It worked! You’re commenting on it! It worked! It means we should do some more of this…
The amount of knee jerk rage I’ve seen over paint whenever one of these incidents happens. Its paint. It comes off. Its an extremely effective strategy to get attention while causing little to no damage.
In this case it’s actually dyed corn starch so this would literally wash off from the first rain. And yea, this actually gets attention, when they spray painted car dealerships of some of the heaviest polluters, protested oil companies and when a guy set himself on fire to protest climate change it gets almost no coverage.
Bullshit. It’s an archeological site. The now faded ancient paintings risks being ruined as a result of this idiocy.
If dyed cornstarch could destroy anything on the stonehenge then it already would have been. You know it’s outside, right?
Paint and ‘being outside’ are two very different things.
You slow or something?
Are you? Something just left outside for a long ass time will take more damage than even a spray of lead paint can do. And this is just corn starch, not even paint.
“They are sensitive and they are completely covered in prehistoric markings which remain to be fully studied,”
So the archeologists are worried but not you, since you, being the goddamn genius you are, are sure it’s all fine.
I don’t even know why I start these arguments with the all-knowing wizards on Lemmy.
How about check the source of the quotes: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cw44mdee0zzo
The reporter first on the scene was concerned. The archaeologist was worried about the lichen growing on the stones, not the stones.
The quote is not in the link you provided. Where did you get that quote?
… God damn it, people. This accomplishes nothing and just makes people angry at you, dipshits.
Much like my witnessing PETA protestors screaming in the face of little children with a bullhorn because they happened to be waiting in line for the circus. I can support removing elephants from a life of circus performing, but I absolutely cannot stand PETA (for this and other reasons like euthanizing people’s pets).
Your PETA horror story didn’t happen lmao
Pretty much every shocking PETA truth is either taken out of context or completely fabricated. They’ve done one thing which I disapprove of, which is the weird “milk makes autism worse” advert they ran. other than that they’re fine imo.
I don’t know if the euthanasia stories are true, but I witnessed the screaming into bullhorns personally as I was also waiting in the line with my kid.
This has been the most effective form of climate protest by far. When they block oil terminals or spray paint car dealerships no one will cover it making the protest pretty much useless, like a guy set himself on fire to protest climate change and that was barely covered. The stuff they do doesn’t actually cause any damage but the media actually covers it because they can spin it as rage bait against the protestors but at least it gets coverage.
Coverage, yes. But the result of that coverage? Making people not want to support climate activism, and maybe even have a negative reaction to anything climate positive. And how effective is that coverage in helping the climate? What changes in climate related policy can be traced back to any of these actions?
Yeah this is totally selfish and just brings attention to them while harming their supposed cause.
It spreads awerness, no other climate protest has even managed that. Some people obviously fall for the news rage bait but if even 1% of people gain any awerness of climate change it will have been the most effective form of climate protests by far purely on what reach it has had.
I would disagree. Like Greta Thunberg , did it right. peaceful protest and didn’t vandalize.
She spoke in front the of UN. These guys are doing it wrong.
And there are thousands of people that express their hatred for her and the movement she stamds for, even threatening to rape and kill her.
In Germany there are regular street blockades and Airport disruptions and the average response to these things was people wanting to run them over with their cars.
There will always be haters, but I’m not sure what point your bringing up?
I’m just saying there are more peaceful way to do things like this, without vandalizing.
And what did that accomplish?
.
Awareness and debate ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ She did inspire the youth
Hard disagree. Everyone in the UK HATES these people. To the point at which the government has been able to pass new laws limiting right to protest.
Who made you ambassador for the UK? I’m in the UK and I don’t hate them.
The whole point of protest is to cause disruption, you’re not meant to like it, that’s the point!
Yeah it can cause disruption, I agree. However it should preferably cause disruption for the people you have a problem with. Or simply by using public space which is equally theirs.
Making headlines by defacing historical monuments and art isn’t really getting the public on their side. I’m left wing, most of the people I engage with are, and I’ve yet to meet someone in real life who thinks what Just stop oil are doing is helpful
Do you remember when their protest outside the HQ of BP made the news? Me neither, but I’m sure the high rollers on their 6, 7, 8 figure salaries felt terribly inconvenienced!
I don’t have to agree with their methods or their ideology to recognise their right to protest. We’re talking about dyed cornstarch here, it’s not like they blew the thing up.
The UK also has a weird hatred of trans people, I’d rather not get my opinions from there. Also the UK has been passing police state shit long before this.
Only if you believe what the conservatives want you to believe, and only if you sign up for their culture war narrative
The Labor party runs the same anti trans stuff as the Tories.
You’ll find that whilst far from perfect, that the UK is one of the most accepting and diverse populations on earth.
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No, this only further entrenches the entrenched.
Speak for yourself. This made me support them.
Nah I’m into it
I still subscribe to the theory that these people are hired actors from Big Oil. They are experts at being unlikable and naturally pushes me towards the opposing side. It sucks.
If a small group annoying you pushes you towards not caring about the climate, you never cared about the climate.
Don’t worry, it’s not like I’m yielding. The point is that I find them to be detractors rather than attractors to join our common goal of not eliminating ourselves.
genuinely i used to subscribe to the same theory
and then it switched. i think they’re here genuinely. not even sure what happened to change my mind. your mileage may vary? but i get where you are coming from.
Just be skeptical about it from both perspectives.
Bad actors do exist but they’re not to blame for everything despite almost any organization or movement these days attempting to scapegoat any poor publicity they experience as bad actors.
That sure would explain a lot … but I think in the end Hanlon’s razor applies.
until they did.
There’s an exact replica in Esperance, Australia.
Why? Good question. Good question.
Check out Bill Bailey’s Australian Adventure, episode 1. It’s on Channel4.
a reminder that the people complaining about how awful it is to desecrate stonehenge also want to build a motorway right through it
the people complaining about how awful it is to desecrate stonehenge also want to build a motorway right through it
I can’t be the only counterexample of this ridiculous generalization.
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Yes exactly. Everyone on earth that doesn’t like the idea of paint being sprayed on it is also pushing for a motorway to be built right through it. No exceptions, no questions, no quarter
Guilt by association fallacy. Both of these things are bad. Not wanting to see an ancient monument be defaced does not make you a Tory.
who is wanting to build route-stonehenge?
Good. They should block the roads too.
I can’t simple not see any logic reason in what they are doing…
Might as well paint a toilet orange at the local library and say it’s for the environment.
Probably requires harsh cleaning and that goes into the ground…
Probably requires harsh cleaning and that goes into the ground…
It’s cornstarch, it requires water (rain).
My cornstarch isn’t orange by default…
The difficulty of adding orange food coloring to cornstarch is an insurmountable chemical process.
The point is to get us talking about it. I’d say they succeeded.
Ah! similar to people that wants cloud on social.
Sure, if you want to phrase it that way. Just slightly different motivation.
Slightly, but basically the same thing 🤣
Congrats on your ancient druid curse.
i feel like druids, if forced to pick a side, might be on the side favoring protecting nature :)
Brave and Important
‘Rocks, don’t fight back’ - Bruce Lee.
Something like that.
Enter the Dragon quote 🙏
I’m all for their cause but they’ve been going about it the wrong way every single time. They do nothing but piss the general public off. The very people you actually need to get on your side.
When they block oil terminals, spray paint car dealerships of the heaviest polluters or set themselves on fire the news doesnt cover it so no one will even know, while this actually works.
Hehe, I see what you did there.
MLK on climate change (probably):
[…]that [humanities] great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the [oil company] or the [billionaire] but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises [climate aware] to wait for a ‘more convenient season.’
Paint washes off bro
Not always homey, but, not really the point.
It’s not even paint, it’s cornstarch
I hate this kind of idiot shit, how do they think this will help their cause? Vandalising a fucking historical monument that does not affect in any way shape or form the environment will just hurt their cause!
A bunch of old ass rocks that you have to pay money to look at. I hope all that ancient ass shit goes away at some point and humans can look forward.
The most effective method of protesting would be to find a way to get the masses to turn against the lawmakers in such a way that they convince the lawmakers to solve the problem that the protest is focused against.
But most of these protests just piss off the masses. They run their day with traffic, they destroy heritage sites that people care about, and while they do get in the news and get some publicity, people’s memory is quite negative. And there are zero focus on anybody who could actually change the situation.
“destroy heritage sites”
It’s cornflour lmfao. It’s probably been washed away by now.
