that is just sad. yet so many will say sexism does not exist
Removed by mod
Intersectionality
It’s as if, like, if you are a woman, and also in a disfavoured racial category, like, where they, uh, have overlap? Where they meet? It’s not the same as either one individually but its own, I guess nexus? I feel like there’s a better word for this
There’s a somewhat niche, but clever word for this particular combo - misogynoir
Coined by Moya Bailey in 2010
Removed by mod
That’s not what minority means in the sociological context. Volume is mathematical. Poor people are a minority and there’s more of them than the 1%. Being a minority is about lack of power, prestige and property. And intersectionality is the more formal term, but ‘double minority’ gets the point across.
but being a woman isn’t really a minority tho
It depends on the context. In a Victoria’s Secret fashion show? Yeah, probably not the minority. In a tech role, which women are systemically harassed and bullied out of pursuing? Yeah, she might be a minority.
The term is “intersectionality”. Conservatives really hated the term before they went all popeyed over “woke”.
but being a woman isn’t really a minority tho
They certainly are in computer science
idk the point of your snark… people are still figuring out intersectionality. just give some education or stfu, dont condescend to people who are making an effort.
@ReiRose@lemmy.world has it right, the term and idea is intersectionality.
apropos of nothing, intersectionality came out of critical race theory’s analyses of black womens outcomes in the legal system. the particular combination of oppression is literally the textbook example.
Also the person in the next door cubicle that microwaves fish for lunch.
Yeah, online gaming has all but confirmed to me that sexism is very alive and well.
The funny thing is that in my experience female programmers usually have above average skills. I suspect it’s exactly because of this bias against women in tech. Where an average or below average dude can easily get by, this is much harder for women. As a result this bias acts as a kind of filter which results in female programmers being on average a little better than male programmers because all the average or below average ones get filtered out early.
Here’s hard data to match your experience:
“This paper presents the largest study to date on gender bias, where we compare acceptance rates of contributions from men versus women in an open source software community. Surprisingly, our results show that women’s contributions tend to be accepted more often than men’s. However, women’s acceptance rates are higher only when they are not identifiable as women. Our results suggest that although women on GitHub may be more competent overall, bias against them exists nonetheless.”
That’s probably just because women are smarter than men.
I might add, in the hostile environment women may feel compelled to try harder at least to make a point. As in, “I’ll show you what I can do”.
This is also common in the guitar community. Some women can shred like mofos, and here comes Jim-Bob McGraw saying their playing is tracked etc., ad nauseum
Can… Can I be the one sitting in that chair? (｡♡‿♡｡)
What does it mean if their playing is “tracked”? Genuinely have no clue.
Like they use a pre recorded track and then make a video
Lip syncing for guitarists
ahh! that makes a lot of sense!
Sure there are. But then there are girls like Melle Baby who overshadow them not by only wearing underwear. Seriously, how do I get her out of my recommendations?
Well gamers exist
If she were a man, she’d be calling herself a polymath and everybody would be agreeing with her.
Hell, she’s be the meme for what a “real man” is instead of “gigachad.”
Not a perfect example, but I never see people question Henry Cavil’s nerd cred
Even more rage inducing these comments would be the same if she wasn’t conventionally attractive.
Fucking programmers need a solid clip around the ear.
Claims to be able to program in C++, Java
“Pfft yeah probably only in Hello World”
No that’s Elon Musk. He’s full of shit. This Victoria Secret model can actually do something.
Nah Elon is not that useless, he knows how to change twitter’s icon
I’m sure he got someone to do that for him
Probably replaced “twitter_logo.png” with the x logo under the same name in an AWS bucket lmao
That’s actually pretty hard to do with a codebase as large as twitter’s must be. You would have to locate the frontend code for each front end they have (website, app, etc). For each front end, there will be multiple Twitter logos (different resolutions, icon version, etc.). And then you would have to replace all of them and push the changes through their pipelines.
I doubt musk can do that.
It’s incredible to me that people actually think Elon writes code at Twitter
Elon is a novice when it comes to programming.
That is obvious to any programmer who saw his antics at the beginning of the Twitter takeover.
I mean, the guy was claiming the people who added the most lines of codes are the ones with the most skills and are the ones allowed to stay.
While an amateur programmer needs 100 lines of code, a good programmer can do the same in less than 10 lines. Which is faster, more performant, wastes less resources, and is easier to read afterwards.
It is literally the opposite of what Musks claims.
And lose lawsuits
I was so glad we had a woman join our dev team some months ago. It’s more fun, more relaxed and we are able to get better results as we just cover a wider area of skills. People gatekeeping programming to include only men are idiots.
That poor girl. My gf’s only female teammate quit last month and i suggested she start grinding leetcode asap. Could you imagine being the only woman on a team? Pretty strong indicator that something is very wrong there.
Eh, my team is this way, but it’s because we’re aerospace adjacent which further compounds the problem. The only woman on our team is awesome and everyone gets along great. No one has an inflated ego or feels the need to one up each other though, which tends to be the root of the issue in my experience. Lots of tech bros feel the need to put others down, and see women as an easier target unfortunately.
deleted by creator
I think they meant men in specific in this case. I don’t know that there’s a huge problem of women being sexist against other women in tech.
deleted by creator
Are you suggesting it’s never about gender? There’s no such thing as sexism?
deleted by creator
It’s the same thing with any kind of diversity. Not an expert, but anecdotally, it seems to work better if you start adding diversity at the top. At least people at the senior+ level are generally more comfortable being outliers.
deleted by creator
If we want to reach parity, there’s gotta be some only woman at first.
I don’t think it’s necessarily an indicator of something wrong with the team. it’s not easy to hire women in this industry, there just aren’t that many of them. A team of 10 people with 1 woman isn’t a red flag, it’s unfortunately average. If we’re talking about a bigger team that’s a different story.
It’s somewhat easier if you hire immigrants. there are definitely more women devs from Eastern cultures than Western cultures.
You say this, but I’ve been on 5 two-pizza teams over the course of my career, and there were other women on every team except the 2 most toxic ones. My current team at a large fortune 500 is majority women. I realize this may not reflect the entire industry, and some fields may be more male dominated than others. But there are a lot of women programmers out there. You just need to pay them well and give them a good work life balance and they’ll work for you.
I do agree that there’s more we could do to attract women. The company I work for is known for good WLB so I don’t think that’s the issue. We only hire senior people every few years and I’m pretty sure we only offer market value, so it’s possible that is a problem.
That said, I think we actually have more women on dev teams than most companies do. Especially the back end teams, maybe because we have a lot more women in the engineering leadership there. It’s our FE teams, which are led almost entirely by men, where we have fewer women. So if we did start hiring again I’d really like to see us bring in more women at the top.
I’ve interviewed around 20 people since I started working here and only 3 candidates were women-- I don’t have any control over who the recruiter sends our way, so I don’t really know what kind of bias could be going on there. So it’s possible that’s a problem too.
All that said, hiring good engineers is really competitive and I think we do struggle against FAANG-likes already. Even though we have a lot of good benefits we have a reputation for being super boring and proprietary (think enterprise software like Oracle, but not Oracle thankfully), which turns a ton of people off. So it’s not easy to attract talented people to start with.
Tbf, the original photo was already discounting her abilities. Saying “can program code” for a lead SWE is saying like “can do calculus” for physicist.
It’s annoying sometimes that people just assume that those who don’t work in tech are completely clueless about tech.
It’s also really funny to mess with people who assumes that.
as someone who works in tech, the number of people who think they know about tech and are actually completely full of shit dramatically outweighs the people who don’t work in tech and do know what they’re talking about. it can take a lot of energy to differentiate the 2 groups
dunning krueger is at play a lot, because most people use a computer every day and think they know everything about the internet because they know what DNS stands for and typed a command to flush the DNS cache this one time and it worked
This mirrors the experience of anyone who has studied linguistics.
Because everyone speaks at least one language fluently, they tend to assume that they understand how languages work, while having zero awareness of the fact that people have spent generations studying language and communication at the PhD level and that almost nothing about what we reflexively intuit about language actually holds true.
And I say this as a purely amateur linguistics nerd who does not claim any real formal expertise in terms of academic credentials.
Don’t exhaust yourself, just assume that everyone who thinks they know about tech does. They’ll prove themselves wrong very quickly if necessary and you eliminate the risk of getting owned by a VS model.
except when you waste a crap load of time figuring something out only to realise that the person that says “it can’t be X” didn’t actually know that it was in fact X
… this is why you don’t argue with ISP support when they tell you to reboot your router: just do it; they don’t know that you’ve done that before you call them, and you telling them that’s not the problem is not going to change anything… it’s not because they don’t believe you specifically, it’s because they just can’t trust that everyone knows what they’re talking about
the same goes for most IT problems… it saves time in the long run to just assume people don’t know what they’re doing, because problems and systems are both complex and dynamic
Re ISP support: It depends on the support desk person you’re talking to. I’ve talked to idiots who have no clue what they’re doing and thus can’t tell if you do. I’ve also talked to people who clearly knew a lot and could tell I knew enough to make the claims I was making. I obviously prefer the latter. Shame all support can’t be that and usually is just a complete layperson following a script. Deviating from that script at all makes them uncomfortable
Nah, ISP support (and many other support) just have a script they have to go through on every call.
I agree that rebooting your electronic device will fix a lot of issues.
But if those from support were actually any good, they would just reboot your router remotely.
Yeah, you can’t really fake experience either. I recently joined a group of guys who clearly have had plenty of real world experience in the kinds of things I have, and just talking shop is refreshing. Haven’t had that ability for a long time.
If someone like her showed up in my team, and she’s able to talk the talk, I wouldn’t need any further validation and it’d be fun to hear the kinds of things she’s worked on.
Funnily enough, a woman is joining this all-guy group soon and I’m told she’s really good, so I get to do exactly that.
This is true, but also IT is a huge place there is an insane amount to learn. So really you spend an incredible amount of time in the “valley of despair”. Basically anyone who brags about their skills is VERY suspect. This person is an iOS developer, which is a great career, but the title of the article is phrased like she was at least Linus Torvalds. I’m sure she had little say in this, but whilst a reaction like this is never justified I can see why people made fun of it. Also it was clearly written by someone who has no idea what the words mean. Unless I’m mistaken MIPS is a cpu architecture, you can’t program in it. You can write machine code “for” it. So yeah I can see why people assumend these claims were lies.
They assumed these claims were lies because they are sexist.
I work in tech. I taught programming at university. And guys think I have no idea what I am talking about when I am the person correcting their f*ing babies homework. I had men come into my office asking me when the Sys Admin is back in office.
They assumed these claims were lies because they are sexist.
…which is stupid because you don’t pick MIPS and ObjectiveC if you’re just flexing your hobby skills. From the language choice alone I knew she was a developer.
MIPS is processing speed. Definitely needs programming
MIPS is a CPU architecture.
But it needs programming right?
Well not really as such. MIPS is a CPU, yes it has microcode, but for argument’s sake, let’s assume the person in the article is not a CPU designer. I’m sure in the slightly sassy reply to internet trolls where he listed every achievement she could think of, being a CPU designer would’ve been mentioned.
So you can write program FOR a microprocessor. You can either do it in a very low level way, for example writing assembly or even byte code to a CPU directly, or in a very (well relatively) high level way, for example the Net Yaroze development kit for the PS1 (I hope the ps1 WAS a MIPS. The PS2 definitely was). Basically saying that you can “Program in MIPS” makes no sense as such, and to anyone who knows almost anything this hurts the credibility of the article simply.
Yes, but I wouldn’t recommend it.
(I didn’t enjoy Assembly in college and I haven’t written it since)
This is one of the problems I find with computers. Same acronyms meaning different things
Million Instructions Per Second
Microprocessor Interlocked Pipeline Stages
Both relate to processors and it’s dumb
I feel personally attacked lol
Same. And I’ve dated a Denise. Not easy to forget.
I feel dumb.
Repeat after me : “it’s always DNS”
Tech is a weirdly wide term. Does it only include IT? Engineering? Astrophysics?
A lot of work is “tech” as in technology related. It is inevitable to be clueless about a lot of technology, even when being the spearhead of development in one specific field.
Meanwhile you don’t need to tell the guys at the car-shop about programming, but they most likely know more about every non computer part of the car you just brought to them for repairs, because you were clueless about where that weird sound comes from.
Welding pipelines and building houses is tech.
Tech being used exclusively for electronics and computing is sort of weird, but idk what else to use.
Calling it the Tron industry would be fun, though.
Yeah, and even more broadly, there are very few single things you can learn about a person that tell you anything else about them. Like “Because you’re _____ your must also be _____.” I work with a bunch of literal rocket scientists, and I often see people assume that because they have that kind of job, they probably aren’t creative. Pushing aside the fact that there are giant amounts of creativity in engineering solutions, I know rocket scientists who are painters or musicians. Some who have written fiction.
I guess there are a few things where maybe it’s valid. There probably haven’t been many NBA stars who suffer from dwarfism. But generally when you know one thing about a person, you just know that one thing. Finding out that someone is an academy award nominated actress doesn’t, in itself, tell much else.
Some fragile male egos in this thread. Looking forward to your complaints about the Barbie movie. Sad and pathetic.
I manage a software engineering organization at an aerospace company and if I had to rank all my folks, the women would be disproportionately high on the list. It boggles my mind that anyone would discount someone’s programming ability because of their gender.
“This paper presents the largest study to date on gender bias, where we compare acceptance rates of contributions from men versus women in an open source software community. Surprisingly, our results show that women’s contributions tend to be accepted more often than men’s. However, women’s acceptance rates are higher only when they are not identifiable as women. Our results suggest that although women on GitHub may be more competent overall, bias against them exists” nonetheless.https://peerj.com/preprints/1733/
Oh, I remember reading that one (or an article about it). Frustrating.
I don’t get it either. I work with many, many really smart engineers. About half are women.
I’m not in the tech field, but most of the people in my office are women and, as a man, it’s so refreshing not having to deal with other guys’ loud macho bullshit. I never liked it, it always made me feel uncomfortable.
Half? How? I work at an aerospace electronics company and the male to female ratio is ridiculously high. I never understood why. It would be refreshing to work at a place with a more even ratio. The few women I work with are really smart and have moved up the management chain quickly.
Depending on the culture in your country bias can sit pretty deep. I live and work in a country that’s very egalitarian on the surface. But people here have a strong and sometimes subconscious belief that: A women aren’t really intelligent but rather diligent and B women aren’t good in math/logic.
When you grow up with these biases as a girl you don’t have much interest in even trying to take up a hobby or even try to study something that is said to be only achievable by intelligent and highly logical people.
When you try it regardless people basically put you under a microscope and you have to proof constantly that you are somehow not what they believe is in your biology. It will surely show up someday when you make a mistake or don’t know about something.
I havent looked into it much but one reason seems to be stereotypes driving girls and women away from stem: Gender stereotypes about intellectual ability emerge early and influence children’s interests
A study on American kids but Im sure the same happens elsewhere. Its annotated and a great read just for the methods they used.
Since these stereotypes wont disappear soon we should let our kids know such ideas are made up and stuff so they wont buy them when exposed.
The company I work at makes rocket engines (e.g., the ones on SLS/Artemis). When I go to university job fairs, the number of women who come to our booth is miniscule. The women interested in tech tend to be much more clustered around the very socially conscious companies, like for green energy. Sometimes there’s more interest couching it as supporting human space flight, but we do a lot of defense work, too.
I don’t think it’s mostly gender… Programmers aren’t usually those that have won the genetic lottery, I can count on one hand the amount of drop dead women engineers I’ve met in my field, they definitely exist, but they are super rare.
If we leave out fields that revolve around beauty and adjust for intelligence required in the specific field of work i am not sure, if beauty is actually negatively correlated with engineering.
I don’t see a higher rate of beautiful people on the train to work, than i see at work. I just see more on the train, because there is more people overall.
It may have more to do with her being a model than with her gender. I’m not saying it didn’t influence the comments, just that being a model probably had more weight
You can’t change the looneys mind with reason. Don’t try
Not on a site that is just a shittier version of reddit, anyway.
What?
Anyone not hating a random woman they’ve never met is clearly mentally deranged /s
Or maybe I meant this isn’t about gender and a male model would get similar comments. But yeah say whatever suits your propaganda 😂
Except for the fact that everyone in this thread knows that’s an insanely false claim
Last time I checked, I didn’t type with my penis. But to be honest, I didn’t try yet. Maybe I’d be able to increase my performance.
I wonder if that’s the underdog effect at work
Sure. I’ve known several crappy women programmers, but they get pushed out of the industry. The guys are more likely to fail upward.
Same in aviation
Where I am? Possibly, but I think it’s also possible that we have an environment that appreciates diversity, so talented people who have had to put up with crap other places tend to stick around here. People who don’t face any sort of discrimination might be as likely to leave as they would anywhere. Several years ago, we had a few consecutive years of downsizing, so the people who remained were all pretty sharp.
I really love the environment where I work. Brilliant people doing some very cool stuff, and most are really nice to deal with. I would enjoy having dinner with every single one of my employees.
A hello world in MIPS is impressive by itself.
I’d be impressed by anyone who could “Hello, world” in MIPS
Am I the only one that doesn’t think it’s a waste if a gorgeous person does modeling/acting? If I had a body people wanted to ogle I would be using that power 24/7 instead of sitting here in a shitty office under fluorescent lights pretending to care about work while they pretend to care about me.
Whenever I see someone taking down these absolute bottom of the barrel incel dork on social media, it just feels like shoo-ing a squirrel off the bird feeder. Just not even worth taking action
What is that…new… sentiment that i am feeling… 🥰
can program code
Such a weird sentence
Those guys are pathetic
How the hell does she program in mips? I thought that was a unit of measurement
